The NOT an MSP Show

Andrew Moon: Welcome to another
hot episode of the Not an MSP show.

I'm gonna be your host in crime and
I've got virtual Pete Matheson today.

So you guys are in for
something, a real treat today.

And also my partner in crime, Scott Riley.

We're sans Richard.

Uh, we were hoping to have Sir Richard
with us this week, but maybe next week.

Maybe next week.

Uh, So, Pete, I'm gonna let you,
you gotta go first now and tell us

what's going on with virtual Pete.

everybody what challenge is this week.

Uh, what's

Scott Riley: So it's fairly obvious for
people watching, but for people listening,

it's uh, definitely not obvious.

So I, I'm spending this week
is like a challenge for my, a

video I'm shooting, which is
spending seven days working in vr.

So I'm literally sat here in
front of my normal computer desk.

I've got the Oculus Quest Pro or
Meta Quests Pro headset on layman.

And, uh, and yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm
doing this video call from inside

the VR world, which is bizarre.

So, um, yeah, if you've got any
questions about how VR working

works, then uh, ask away.

This is a, this is definitely a experience

Andrew Moon: He's gonna turn on
the Afterburners here shortly,

Scott Riley: can, I can step back on it.

I can, I can change my surroundings,
but currently I thought the spaceship

was a good one to, uh, to settle on

Andrew Moon: Nice.

See, and I, I still have the Kenny
logins so that, that in a spaceship.

There you go.

a virtual top gun peat
this week, Ah, good stuff.

All right, so let's jump into
our topic this week, cuz I know

that there's probably, uh, both
vendors and non vendors on the chat

today, on this, on this episode.

Let me see.

I've got 12 people showing.

So if you're watching on YouTube,
go ahead and hit the like button.

Give us a, give us a a
like over on YouTube.

And if you haven't subscribed yet, uh,
please do that while you're there as well.

You guys know how the YouTube algorithm
works, all that good fun stuff.

You virtual, Pete's gonna give
you a virtual heart symbol.

So yeah, help us out over on YouTube, uh,
so we can, we can make more of this show.

So today is all about vendors,
vendor relationships, and I figured

I threw that little topic up there.

Vendor relationships be tricky.

Uh, because we know that it
doesn't always go smoothly.

Uh, but today what we want to
talk about, how do we, how do we

work through that as an industry?

How do we work through that as
vendors, possibly ourselves?

We are vendors to our customers too.

And I think that there's things to be
learned on both sides of the street.

Um, Scott, I'm gonna have
you kick us off today.

What, what do you see as
the biggest challenge for an

MSP with a vendor right now?

Pete Matheson: Well, I guess, you know,
from my perspective it's really simple.

Um, it's.

It's, it's having the honesty to
understand that I am too small

for many vendors to be interested
in and spend a lot of time with.

Um, because I've come from the very,
very big msp, um, where we would

spend a lot and we would have a
lot of opportunities and a lot of,

um, revenue with these big vendors.

Um, and you know, when you start
up on your own and you're a very

small msp, uh, like we are, um, then
you really don't matter too much.

And that could be quite painful,
because you feel like, Hey,

I'm, I'm going outta my way.

Like we're, we're big advocates
for Microsoft technology.

Um, But, but, but Microsoft don't
know who we are or what we do.

Um, and, you know, that can be a,
a real challenge for us sometimes

because, we'll, we'll miss out
on partner programs or, you know,

development funds or even just having
a relationship with the vendor at all.

You know, having someone that we
can, we can turn to and talk to

and, and bounce our ideas off.

And I think for a lot of small
MSPs, you know, they, they

will have this frustration.

There are so many great vendors
in our space, um, but they.

Possibly account for
every single small msp.

There are so many of us.

Um, and I think it's, it's finding
a way for us to, as for us as the

MSP to be really tactical about
which vendors do we want to work

with, and then really establishing a
relationship properly with those vendors.

Because if we just try and scatter gun
approach and go, Well, I'll, I'll make

relationships with as many vendors as
possible and, you know, I'll tell each

one of them a great story about what
we're doing and where we're going.

Um, that doesn't work because ultimately
those vendors are gonna look back at you

and go, Well, hey, you told us all these
great stories, but I don't see any sales.

And so, Whilst they might be really
interested in partnering up at first over

time, that's just gonna dwindle away cuz
you tried to sell to them that you're

gonna be their their next big partner.

Um, so I think it can be really hard,
uh, you know, as the, as you know,

in our position as the smaller msp.

Um, but I think having a good dose
of reality is, is really necessary

for some, some small guys like me.

I, I'll start that off on a
real negative, I guess there

Andrew Moon: No, I mean, that's what
we're talking about, that challenge.

And I think that that's what we
wanna talk about today is addressing

that negativity, especially that
we see in our space as well.

Um, but I think now that Pete, you and
I are on the flip side of that now,

we're not in the MSP role, but we do
coach a lot of MSPs provide mentorship.

What, what do you see as being the biggest
challenge for an MSP right now as well?

Scott Riley: Uh, I think it's very,
very similar to what Scott's been saying

there, and, um, particularly with things
like, uh, you know, stock shortages

and availability and pricing changes,
uh, just constantly being an issue

and a challenge for MSPs that it's.

All well and good that the ideal world.

And kind of mirroring on what Scott
was saying there is try and focus your

efforts with, you know, a smaller number
of, you know, partnership programs.

For example, your, you know,
the main distributor where

you buy your equipment from.

If you can try and focus that attention
on one distributor and you can build

up a good, you know, good credit
history with that distributor, then

it really helps if you actually need
any extra support in the future.

Uh, I remember going back a few years,
but you know, there were certain moments

where we needed some extra credit
or some extra payment terms or some

extra support on some certain deals.

And had we been spreading our, our
kind of split across multiple vendors

on multiple distributors, Neither one
of them would've really cared about us

because again, we're a very, very small
account in the big grand scheme of things.

But because we were trying to make an
effort at least to, to focus the majority

of orders with one distributor, it at
least made them pay more attention to us.

We, we kind of worked
our way up the ranks.

We got a, you know, got a dedicated
account manager at a certain stage, and

it did get to the stage where actually
when we were spending, you know, a hundred

or 200 k with them a, a year in terms
of spend, Then when you go and speak to

another disti, if you're not happy for
any reason, you can quite confidently

say, Look, we've, we've spent 200,000
pounds or dollars with this vendor.

What can you do for us if we were
to move that spend over to you?

So it kind of brings the power back
into your, kind of, your quarter

of knowing what your stats are in
terms of your spend and what your

kind of average kind of run rate is.

Um, but that's a huge challenge now
because you can't necessarily go

with one vendor because they might
not have stock, and you have to be

forced to go to these other vendors.

But again, if you do have the opportunity
to do that, if you, you know, maybe

have to wait an extra day or two and
the client's happy to wait a day or two,

then try and stick with that same vendor.

It just, it just helps so, so much.

Um, the challenge I certainly had
when, uh, you know, with my MSP was

not necessarily with the distributors
because you buy stuff constantly, you

know, almost every day you'll be buying
stuff, but it's with the other software

vendors where you might not buy as often.

Maybe the, the Citrix is the Ciscos when
you're buying licenses or whatever it

might be, and trying to work your way up
the ranks in their partnership programs.

When you are not a huge conglomerate that
does Citrix, for example, every single

day, that that's a challenge because you
know, you're trying to then, Compete with

the smaller deals where you're trying
to, you know, introduce that product

into your kind of your own, you know,
target audience and your, your, your

client base, but you get zero support
because you're a small, you know, you

are a nobody compared to that vendor.

So that's like the challenge that we
always suffered and we never really

broke through, in all honesty, other than
trying to focus our attention on yeah, the

product set that, that we could focus on.

Focus on the Microsoft focus,
your, you know, hardware on certain

products, networking, PC servers.

Stick with what you know, um, or at least
try and focus on one particular product.

Uh, there was one particular
coaching client I was having a

call with, I think it was last
week, maybe it was early this week.

And, um, They, they'll buy like
Lenovo, hp, Dell, you know,

literally whatever they could do.

Whereas actually, if you look at
standardizing, it fixes a ton of issues.

And yes, we've got the stock issues and
the pricing issues, but if you have,

you know, at least the same brand across
all of your clients, then you know,

all you care about is that one brand.

You can pay attention to the, you
know, security bulletins that come up,

Any new firmer updates that come up.

If you have an issue with one bit
of kit, then you know how to fix

it on all the other bits of kit.

It just removes like having to learn
or relearn the same thing across

multiple brands and gives make, makes
an easy job for your text to learn

and makes it an easier for job for
you as the business owner and maybe

the procurement person to find it, buy
it, support it, and quote it as well.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

And if you guys have questions for
us, those of you happy to be watching

live, drop those in the comments.

Um, so we can say hi, we
can answer your questions.

Uh, we like to be able to do that.

Also, like I said, if you're just
joining us here, uh, lemme see here.

I've got 10 still joining us and I've
only got five thumbs up over on YouTube.

So we need those other five of you
who are hiding under the covers, uh,

to give us that, that like button so
we can, we can pump up this video.

Cause I think this is a bigger discussion.

Uh, you, you, standardization is
one of the things you talked about.

And then that I didn't figure out
till probably five or six years into

running my MSP how beneficial that was.

And then that made the whole,
because I think there's two different

vendors that we as MSPs deal with.

One is the actual hardware,
the, you know, the gear, if you.

And then there's also the tools that
we use to actually provide the service.

Uh, so I think, so that takeaway for
me is, from a vendor perspective,

is standardizing on equipment gear,
whether, you know, all the way down

to the monitor and mice and keyboard,
all the mics that you use inside.

So, but that you're, you're exactly right.

That made it easier to troubleshoot
when there were problems that made it

much easier cuz I could stock that gear.

You know, we knew what the stock,
cuz everybody had the same computer.

The laptops were either one or
two models, desktops, same things.

Servers were all the same.

So it made it from a, from a replacement
aspect for me, much easier when we

had that standardization in place.

But where I see the dichotomy in
the MSP industry right now is with

the tools that we use, whether
that's security vendors, psa, rmm.

. That's where I see the
huge rift right now.

And again, just from talking to people,
the forums that we belong all belong to.

That's where I see, and that's
why I did the, our graphic

this week was the arm wrestle.

Um, and, and that tussle that we have
in the industry with those vendors.

So what do you, you guys see as
being the biggest challenge with

psa rmm, You know, the vendor tools
that we use to provide the service.

Uh, where do you guys see the biggest
challenge lying for MSPs right now?

And then we're gonna flip our
hats on and try to look at this

from a vendor perspective as well.

Pete Matheson: I mean, if, if
I look at, uh, PSA r m vendors.

I've gotta say by and large, especially
for the, the more integrated suites,

they're just too damn expensive.

They're too big, they're too
clunky, they're too awkward,

they're too slow to change.

They don't adapt to the market fast
enough, and that's because they've

become these gargantuan things.

And so, What you see is, and, and you
know, when I speak to MSPs, they, they're

constantly looking to switch out their
PSA or their RMM platform because they

just keep reaching the end of the rope
with, with the current one that they have.

And, and we, you know, and I'm sure
you have the same conversation,

which is no, who don't switch because
you'll spend your life switching

from PSA to psa, from RMM to rmm.

Don't switch, just embed, dig
in and, you know, add on other

tools to make your life easier.

Maybe it's a zap here or
maybe it's something else to

tie your systems together.

But the, the challenge that I always
see with these really big vendors,

and I think it gets worse when
they buy each other out, um, is

that they're just too big and slow.

And like, you know, I
don't mind naming names.

I try to sign up with ConnectWise
as we set off on our MSP

journey three years ago.

Um, and they wanted however many hundreds
of pounds per user per month, which

again, is a small msp, was, was difficult
enough, but they then wanted 6,000 pounds,

call it 10,000, no, maybe seven, seven
or 8,000 US dollars to set up their

RMM platform so that we could use it.

And I was like, You want seven
or $8,000 so that you can set up

your product so that I can use
it How I, I don't understand.

And the best offer that they could come
back with at that stage was to say,

Well, hey, I tell you what, don't pay
it all up front, will increase the per

user charges, and you'll essentially
pay that off over the next three years.

And I was like, No, I don't want to
pay you $7,000 to set up your software.

I, I don't wanna do that.

And it just didn't seem
to make sense to them.

Now, having been in the bigger MSPs
as well, that challenge is only

exacerbated because again, we have these.

You know, service test teams of a
hundred or 200 people who all need

access to these platforms and they're
not doing what we need them to do.

And as I say, they're
just too slow to change.

They're too slow to bring in
the new features and functions.

They're full of bugs.

And it, it's back to that whole thing
now where we look at them and go,

Is this really the best there is?

Is this, is this what we need
to put up with as MSPs or are

there smarter ways to do this?

Do we, you know, and it's back
to that question of going,

do we need an RMM platform?

Sorry, Do we need a, a PSA and
RMM combined platform these days?

Are there other ways to work?

And that's where we end up in
this whole loop of jumping ship.

And I, I genuinely think that some
of the, the larger RMM and PSA

vendors are just, are happy that
we're kind of trapped in this circle.

It doesn't do what we want, it costs
too much, but the, the pain of change

is too great and we can't figure
out what all those variables are.

So we're gonna renew for another
12 months while we figure this out.

Well, hey, guess what?

We didn't because we were busy
over those 12 months as well.

Um, I feel super negative today.

I feel really bad.

Andrew Moon: He's
bringing the spicy today.

He's bringing the spicy.

What do you see, Pete?

We got Mar Mary's joining us and it
sounds like she's in a vendor role

and she's, Let me move this comment
around here so we can get that a

Pete Matheson: I, I think Mary

Andrew Moon: the whole thing.

Yeah,

Pete Matheson: I, and, and it's something
I wanted to touch on May, maybe after

we, we talk about this section, but
I think the partnership is huge.

I think that that is what will
make a successful relationship.

And it isn't just what
was classic distribution.

You know, here's a list of PCs and
here's list of skews by which ones

you want that, that isn't where
distribution is today anymore.

And I don't think that's
where vendors are today.

And I think that relationship
is huge, But sorry.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Yeah.

Let's get your take, Pete.

Scott Riley: Um, yeah, but my, my, my
thoughts around the, certainly the PSA

platforms change from time to time.

I, I think I completely agree
with what Scott said there.

The, the big event has have been around
for a very long time and that it's

almost like they've got comfortable
with the products they've got and

comfortable with slow development times.

I, I think that's certainly
been the issue we had.

Um, we, we used ConnectWise, you know,
beforehand in our msp literally from

day one we signed up with ConnectWise.

We only had one or two users, but
the number of times that things would

break, like, like real functionality
would break things like the invoicing.

Um, just decided to add a dollar sign
in front of all of our invoices, even

though we're in the UK and everything
needs a British pound sign on it.

So we had to go through and manually
edit all of our invoice templates

to have pound signs and set of.

Until it took them like three
or four months to fix that bug.

And it's just that rate of slow
development that really, really, yeah,

it does, does make you look around
and look at these other products.

But again, that's a huge change to
be able to change your product set.

And, you know, anyone knows trying
to go set up a new PSA system,

whether it's gonna be going to
ConnectWise or CAA or, you know, Halo

or whatever it's gonna be, is still
a huge task to go and set it all up.

Um, and the issue I've certainly
had recently with people have been

changing, you know, I've, I've made
videos around, you know, Halo and

both, and ConnectWise, both of them.

And they've got their both, you know,
both got their kind of pluses and minuses.

Halo looks like it's a modern system,
but they're very much, you know,

they're a new bee to the market.

They're, they're very fresh.

They've still got lots of things to learn.

They've still got lots of
features to add in there.

Yes.

Some of the products, which, which I,
I love Halo, like some of the products.

Fantastic.

It moves really, really well.

It's fast, it's fluid, it's respons.

But there just aren't some features that,
you know, all the other PSA products have.

And so you've got that side of the,
kind of the, the fence, or you have the

other side of the fence where you're
with a more established, dominant

player like the cassettes, like the
datos, like the connect wises that

have all the features in the world.

You do have to sit there and assume you're
gonna have to put up with maybe some

slowness or some bugs that aren't just,
aren't gonna fit, you know, work well

or just get charged through the teeth
for, you know, professional consultancy.

I remember going to, um, that particular
time actually when the invoice, uh, broke,

I went to their professional consultancy
team, Oh, hey, it's gonna be, you know,

when you spend two hours customizing your
template to fix that problem for you,

what the problem that you introduced,
you are now gonna charge me time to fix.

And it wasn't just that
it was, we need two hours.

Oh, we only bill in
increments of eight hours.

You need to buy eight hours so we can
spend two of that fixing your problem.

And it was just, and, and yeah,
like Scott said, you kind of

over a barrel at that point.

You either pay it or you don't.

You live with the problems
or you go look elsewhere.

You realize moving elsewhere is gonna
take even more time and even more money.

So you do, you just kind
of stay where you are.

And the, um, the, the thing that I've
had issues with recently, which maybe

that might be in the, in the vendor
discussion shortly, is where I've made

these videos, um, about certain products.

And certain providers haven't liked
what I've said in those videos,

and I've had messages from them
saying, That makes it very difficult

for us to work with you anymore.

And it's like from, certainly from my
perspective and you know, most of us

making videos and doing YouTube videos,
content is my, my opinion is my opinion.

And also I don't side with
any vendor whatsoever.

My, my, my side is with the MSPs.

And so if I'm making content where,
particularly where I'm particularly

calling out features that I've
experienced and had issues with, like

take issue with those features and
issues that I'm calling out and maybe

try and make some effort to fix those.

The, of all the instances this has
ever happened of, by the way, you know,

I, I posted on LinkedIn a few times.

You look at the comments and it's people
going, Yep, I'm having those same issues.

This has happened.

Yep.

I'm having those issues.

Not once has any of those vendors
reply to that kind of train

of, you know, comments and.

Get in touch.

We'd love to support you.

No, we'd love to work through your issues.

No, they've just focused on my post and
saying, Oh, that's not a very nice post.

Well, how about all you've got
unhappy customers that have posted

saying they're not very happy,
Maybe focus on them instead.

That's, that's the reason why I posted
and there's a lot of people agreeing

with me, and that's the thing that I
just can't get over as a vendor is,

you know, you're trying to kind of
control the control the, the story

that's put online when you're completely
ignoring or, you know, certainly not

completely ignoring your community.

Cuz there's tons of people out there.

I know Sean Lado.

ConnectWise is doing a fantastic, um, you
know, fantastic role out there now, which

is something they didn't have before.

But for the most part, a lot of
us, or say a lot of us, but a lot

of MSPs feel like they're ignored
cuz they, they're not big enough to

shout and cry and sing and dance.

They just don't get the attention and
they only seem to get the attention

when other people say these things
online and try and help them.

Like the number of my clients I've
had to try and help them with things.

And being able to give them the
names and the email addresses of

people that can actually help them.

It shouldn't need to get to that
stage for them to get that support.

Uh, Reddit's another, weirdly, another
place you can go on Reddit and complain

on Reddit, and the vendors are actually
hanging out on Reddit nowadays, and you

can get support because they'll find
the right person for you on Reddit.

I mean, what, why, why
should we need to do that?

Andrew Moon: Yeah, so that's, I
mean, I think that that's definitely

something that, that we've seen is
just product, you know, the, the,

the stalwarts in the markets, you
know, they've been there a while.

They're comfortable.

For a long time I was a ConnectWise
shop as well, and Scott way back, we

did ConnectWise in 2006 and it was
around 10 grand for the cloud version.

I was, I signed up, I was one
of their first, Cause that's, we

signed initially with Autotask cuz
they were the only cloud PSA tool.

Use that for a year.

And then when ConnectWise went cloud,
I was like, okay, I knew I wanted

ConnectWise in the first place, but yes.

So I get the, and again, we'll
flip over to the vendor hat and

look at it from that perspective.

Their minimum viable deal
seems to be 10 grand you.

Which again, like I said,
we'll talk about that from a

business perspective in a minute.

But I think that, you know, uh,
westway it, I'm not sure first name.

You guys may know who this is.

Let me move this comment in here.

Uh, as, as a nimble msp, a very,
I feel very too small to matter,

and quite few vendors don't even
give you named account managers.

So how do you build a relationship when
you don't deal with the same person?

And yeah, that, I think that that
is, you know, some difficulty there

in that relationship building.

Uh, and Mary touched on that.

So Mary sitting from a vendor perspective,
that's what she strives to do.

And I think that there are a lot of
people that work inside any of the,

the vendors that we deal with on
the MSP side that actually do care.

I think that there are a lot of
great people who wish they could

make certain changes but can't.

Um, but I think every time something
happens, we see that in red, you know,

kind of the get out the pitchforks
mentality, um, you know, seems to

be prevalent in the MSP industry.

And I, I see that gap getting
further and further with the vendors.

And this is what I wanna try to address
because I see problems on both sides.

Um, you know, Westway, it says same thing.

Stop chasing the shiny things
or you'll always be running.

Uh, and I think that, that,
that is the danger for an msp.

Um, that if you are constantly
switching tools, you're not

doing sales and marketing.

If you're constantly switching
tools, your customer service has

gotta take a hit at some point.

Like you're going to suffer at
some point if you're constantly

switching tools every single month.

Uh, and we

Scott Riley: also a, um, challenge
in itself though, cuz to a certain

extent you should be chasing the shiny
things cause you're trying to find

out what's coming and the new products
and the new services you might need.

Or, you know, maybe there is a system
out there that if you switch to

it could be a total game changer.

So there's always this certain parts
or maybe a certain percentage of your

role that I feel should be investigating
that side of things may maybe not, you

know, complete switching of PSA and
rmm, but certainly with like tools and

services that can add on, you know,
enhance the experience of either your

tech or yourself or your clients as well.

Andrew Moon: One of the things, I
finally got smart, cuz I did the same

thing when I, when we started in 2004.

Like, there were very few vendors,
like an RMM tool was very hard to get.

Just the, the tools weren't there.

But I constantly was doing that for
the first few years, trying to figure

out which tool was the right one.

And then I finally decided,
okay, we're gonna, we're gonna

standardize on this stack.

But to your points, Pete, one of the
things that I did was we had time

every week, every month to do r and
d to do due diligence on those tools.

Long due diligence, not just
this, you know, this vendor ticked

me off today so I'm switching.

Like it wasn't one of those
split decisions because I knew my

business was gonna suffer if I.

The vendors.

You know, it's the same thing.

If you've got massive amounts of
people switching from a business

perspective, that's not great.

Um, so that's, that's kind of, you
know, what I see is taking some time

aside to do r and d and to look for
those, okay, what's coming down.

But, but again, reserving that
and doing more due diligence.

I, I wish we would see a little
bit more of that from the MSP side

rather than these rash wholesale
moves, you know, of tools every time,

tools break, we all know that tools
break, things that we make break.

So, you know, when we look at that
from a, you know, we're a vendor to,

to our customers, there are things
that we do when we mess up and we

want the benefit of the doubt from our
customers to be able to make it right.

And I think that that's what is missing
in this relationship with our vendors

is we're not always, Free to, you know,
let them have the benefit of the doubt.

You know, especially with bigger
companies, I find that the bigger

players who mess up, that's
when the pitchforks come out.

That's when you know people, you know,
like the kerosene and light 'em on fire.

And then we've got good people like
Mary and, and there are others.

There are some at caa, there are some
at ConnectWise that I've been working

with for years that are dedicated
to doing things the right way.

And they want to change.

They, they want to, you
know, fix those issues.

And I think in forums, like that's
why I wanted to have this discussion

Pete Matheson: have this.

Andrew Moon: that I think if we do this,
it's the way we go about approaching, you

know, that that conflict is where I think
we can get better as an MSP industry.

Um, there's a lot of childish things that
get set online because people are angry.

Pete Matheson: Yeah,

Andrew Moon: We're bigger than that.

We're all big boys and girls here.

And I think, you know, rather
than the kindergarten fighting.

That we see going on in Reddit and
other places, like, I think that

that's where we can stand up a
little bit better as an industry,

uh, as adults, as business owners.

Uh, how do you guys feel about that,
and what would your advice be to

an MSP that's in that role where
they're, you know, maybe they're gone

through the things, the irritations
that, that we've all gone through.

Scott Riley: So , I
wasn't sure if you guys

Andrew Moon: Rock, paper, scissors,

Pete Matheson: I think we
both did the same thing.

Um, so, so look, I I would, I,
I think you're absolutely right.

I think the in, in general, I see
a lot of tribes on my video froze.

I'm just checking.

You're okay.

Um, so there, there's a
lot of tribal behavior.

So like you'll see people, you
know, almost see change and get,

you know, get wildly offended.

This, this company's bought that company.

Oh my goodness.

We're all leaving.

You're all gonna change your entire
business processes because of some

corporate merger and acquisition.

Okay.

Yeah.

On a long term scale, if you genuinely
don't believe in the values of

the company, I think that's, I.

But I don't think it should be
this massive sea change reaction.

And you know, I think John from Westway
put a great comment in just that he

says he, he will make sure that he'll
do annual reviews on tools and, and

that gives you that cadence to say, Hey,
you know, we do this on a yearly basis.

We look at our tools, we see if their
best fit, we see if their best value,

we see if they've got a good roadmap.

Um, and I'm speaking for you, John, but
I assume these are the kind of things

that you're putting in that assessment
to then say, is this the tool that we

wanna stick with for the next 12 months?

And then we'll think about it again.

And that way when you've got that
cadence in mind, you'll, you'll be taken

aside from these, you know, internet
fights that happen for throughout the

year where features aren't working
or, you know, bugs are happening.

Um, but I think one of the most important
things that you can do is when you

work with a partner and, and you have
a contact there and, and I know some

of the comments saying, Hey, we don't,
we don't even have named contacts.

But when you start to have named
contacts and named account managers

is to ask the question of them.

How are you measured?

What, what does success look
like for you as an individual?

Because Mary made the point
of it being a partnership.

What is good for the vendor?

Cuz we always look at it and go, Well,
I'm buying from you, therefore you owe me.

Okay.

Um, but what does the
relationship look like?

How in, in, in, in Microsoft world,
when I think of it that way, if

you have a partner account manager,
when we were big enough to have.

You would think, Oh, well, you
know, they, they get, um, paid on

on how many more licenses we sell.

And, you know, we're a csp.

So if we do go from, you know, 500,000
a month to 600,000 a month, they'll

get rewarded better in some way.

And they don't.

It's, it's completely different.

They had a, a mechanism that was all
around, essentially if you gave great

feedback and said they were doing an
amazing job, they were getting their bonus

that quarter, and that's how it worked.

And so it was important to understand
from their, you know, our account

manager's perspective, what makes
you look good in your organization?

What does success look
like for you and your team?

And then you know how to be a good
partner if they need to see your

pipeline earlier, or they need to see
that you're doing campaigns together.

And, and the more that you, you genuinely
are engaged in a partnership of how

do we get more of this product out
to market, assuming it's not your PSA

or rmm, but it's a, it's a service.

How do we get more of this
out to market together?

What makes you look good and that, I
think that is the powerful question to ask

Andrew Moon: environment.

Yeah,

Scott Riley: I think also knowing what
kind of partner you want to be as well.

Cause I know with certain ones of our,
you know, certain, certain vendors,

we just wanted to be left alone.

Like, just let us get on with our thing.

We're gonna do our marketing, our sales.

We kind of know what we're doing.

We don't need to be hounded by sales
calls and like, here's the special offer

for this month and those kind of things.

That was certainly one approach.

Whereas with other vendors, yes, you
might want to be a bit more involved

and have those regular calls with
them, find out more about them.

Um, I think I kind of touched on
it there a little bit, just knowing

the, the special offers and the,
the current promotional, you know,

whatever things might be going on.

That's half of the challenge when you
are dealing with so many different

vendors when you just don't know, okay,
there's a promotion on VMware this month

and maybe Dell have got promotion and
now it's the end of quarter for hp.

So they're trying to push certain
things and there's a trade in deal.

It's just trying to, trying to
collate all of that information,

which can be quite a challenge.

And I think the, um, I'm not sure
if they're still going on, but Tech

Data had a, I think it was a weekly
call, maybe it was a biweekly call.

Um, ran by a guy called Phil
who lives down actually down

the road from me, not too far.

And he basically put together all of the
promotional, um, programs that were going

on that month and they would just run
through it as like a half an hour or an

hour long call, like I say, every other
week or so, where they would run through

and say, Here's a list of vendors, here
are all the promotions going on right now.

Here are the Microsoft promotions,
here is the HP the partner, the Dells,

the, you know, whatever it might be.

Just being able to have that level of
information can really, really help you

with your sales approach cuz you can sell
more of their, you know, their things.

Um, There's a certain amount of
language disconnects I found as well.

Cause when you're talking with lots
of the vendors, I, I just wanna be,

you know, speak to me in English
of what's going on at the moment,

What, what promotions have you got?

Whereas some of the answers you
get back, it's just like, you know,

they're, they're internal code
names for projects or something.

You have no, no idea what
they're talking about.

So if you can just get a good
understanding of what's going on in

their business and you know, what they're
trying to, Yeah, like you said Scott,

like what are you actually being measured
on as well, knowing what that is so

you can actually try and focus on, on
doing that and improving that and, um,

making use of, um, or at least having
discussions around things like the MDF

funding, the market development funds.

Because we just, you know, the first
time we heard that, I just kind of went,

ah, there's probably nothing we can do.

You know, we're not gonna put
on a massive event or anything.

That's, you know, that's a stuff the
bigger companies will be using the MDF

kind of money when you actually went,
when it came to us a few years later.

We could use MDF funding.

We were doing, um, certain
promotions with them.

We, you know, had them into our
office and we did a little podcast

interview with some of them.

There were definitely creative ways you
can use the money and, you know, use

the money to create marketing campaigns,
which isn't just like, let's just use your

generic marketing information, Let's slap
a logo on it and email it out to our list.

That that's not anything
to do with the MD mdf.

It is, okay, what can we do together?

How can we craft a marketing campaign?

What kind of media can we create?

What kind of imagery, how we
gonna brand it all together?

What kind of maybe we can do a special
incentive or an offer, um, is, is

that whole thing that you can work
on with the vendors directly and your

partner managers at those vendors.

Um, and, and that can be
really, really powerful.

Certainly if you're trying to promote,
uh, and push certain products because

you know it's a good fit, you know, with
your, maybe your certain product bundle.

Um, the one thing I would be
interested in is exploring doing

that with multiple vendors.

That's something we didn't do before.

When you're trying to maybe package up,
say a security service with products

and services from multiple vendors and
actually working on something together.

Whether that's something, I dunno, maybe
if anyone in the comments or who might

be listening to this after can leave a
comment down below of if, if you are doing

that at all, if you've had an success.

Cause I feel that's like the next step cuz
it's all, all well and good when you're

just working the Microsoft ecosystem and
you're selling like, you know, ATP and all

the other kind of Microsoft 365 products.

But lots of the work we do.

Is a combination of lots of vendors.

You know, we typically buy maybe a,
a HP server, slap some VMware on.

It may, maybe not nowadays cause it's
in the cloud, but you know, Microsoft,

um, virtual servers you'll slap on the
software, slap on the applications,

which might be from all sorts of vendors.

If you can package that up and pass it
up in a way to promote it and get support

from those various vendors as well.

To push it as, you know, one campaign
there, there's so much you could

do with that, but it's just sitting
down and taking the time to try

and figure out what's going on.

It looks like the power's Scott's
not been paying the electricity Bill

Pete Matheson: I tell you what
the, uh, the, uh, motion sensors

are a little bit aggressive here.

Um, yeah, Pete, you are,
you, you're absolutely right.

And I can tell you that we have
done events, um, where we had

like a trade show and we had a
stand and, and it was a hundred

thousand just to pay for the stand.

Um, and so that was at a, you know, at a,
uh, an end user conference essentially.

But we managed to get funding from
like five or six different vendors,

um, because we were showcasing, we were
show their technology as part of this,

you know, two day event that we did.

So outta that a hundred thousand, we
didn't end up paying for the stand fee

because we took market development funding
from all the different, uh, vendors.

And we made sure that we, like what
do we need to showcase for you?

What's, what's the important product
or service that you want us to

make sure people are aware of?

And, you know, as long as it aligned
with what we were generally doing,

we weren't just gonna, you know, Get
ice cream stands and sell ice creams.

But it was, you know, is
this part of our portfolio?

Is this relevant to our clients?

Is this something that
we can work on together?

And there, there was absolutely no drama
from having five or six different vendors.

We made sure, hey, you don't get,
you know, soft awesome and bit

defender on this, what, you know,
we're gonna take money from you both.

But we would have people who
did, you know, in that time it

was like, you know, teams, video
devices and headsets and handsets.

We would have data to do
backup and disaster recovery.

We would have people who were
doing, um, video walls and, and we

would have, we actually had people
bringing the, the Microsoft Hollow

lens, you know, at that case.

And we had just had different
people, you know, putting into the

sponsorship part and it brought
up this fantastic event together.

Ultimately, you know, we didn't
end up paying the stand fees

for, which was fantastic.

So it definitely is worth doing and
I think the more that you build those

relationships with your, your partner
account managers and your, you know,

your vendors, The more likely you
are to be seen as available for those

market development funds, your account
manager's gonna be thinking, Oh hey,

this new pot's just opened up and I know
just the partner, I'd love to get, you

know, onto one of these types of things.

So it really is about building
that, that two way relationship.

I think it's, I think
it's hugely important.

Um, Just, just to say as well,
I think, you know, um, John from

Westway also pointed out like he,
he feels like as a nimble MSP he

can be quite small and feel like he
doesn't matter to a lot of vendors.

I would say that's where
distribution really can help.

Um, you might not get direct access to MDF
funds, but you certainly get a huge amount

of leverage when it comes to support
and service and pre-sales and quoting.

And you can, again, build a really
powerful relationship with your

distributor, um, so that you can
then get, you know, access to the

right people inside those vendors and
become more seen, become more visible,

um, you know, as you start to grow
the relationship that way as well.

So it's a, it's a really great
way to work through distribution.

Again, try and stick to a, a small
number of distributors in the same

way you would stick to a small number
of vendors and build a relationship

with your distribution account manager
and again, figure out what are they

measured on, what does success look
like for them, and how can we be a

good partner at that level as well.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, and I

think

Scott Riley: you get any of the vendors
sending people to the events with you?

Cause I've seen that a few times
where the vendors will actually

send somebody, send a rep to come
with you in your stand with you.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

And

Pete Matheson: absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Andrew Moon: I was gonna say, here's
how you do that if you don't have a

rep, because I just what John said,
you know, if you're too small, you

don't have a dedicated rep, or maybe
your rep doesn't live in the town

where you live in, What I've found
is there's usually local offices.

If you are in a, a larger metropolitan
area, there are local field

offices of a lot of your vendors.

And I actually went on LinkedIn when I
was running my MSP and John touched on it.

I loved luncheon learns.

I went on LinkedIn, started looking
for Microsoft reps because there was

a Microsoft office right in Columbus.

So I reached out to somebody that, you
know, a couple people on LinkedIn got

connected with them and just said, Hey,
I'm looking to do a lunch and learn.

You know, wanted to see if you guys,
if you had any giveaways, they give

away Microsoft Office licenses.

They give away Windows license stuff that
you can give away at your events for free.

All that nice swag that we like to get
doesn't necessarily have to go through

the formal process of getting mdf, but
as a small player, you'd be surprised

what stuff that they have access to
that you don't know until you ask.

Um, soho was the other one that we had.

They would send me little booklets.

You know, giveaways, things
that I can put in our giveaway

bags at our lunch and learns.

And when I started doing those, they
started seeing that, okay, I can put

50 to a hundred people in a room.

Then all of a sudden, you know, because
of those relationships I made with the

local reps, the local reps who weren't
my salespeople, somebody shows up for

Microsoft at your event at that helps
your street cred as an MSP when you

start to get the vendors to participate.

And then when they're there and they
see that, you'd be surprised how many

phone calls and how many connections
you get that when they push it up the

rungs and say, This guy's doing something
that's unique that nobody else is doing.

Um, and John Luncheon learns.

I still don't see many MSPs doing.

I know we're back to in person events,
but I still, prior to Covid, didn't see

a lot of MSPs doing luncheon learns, and
this does not have to be a huge thing.

Go rent an office, you know, provide
subs to everybody for lunch and invite

everybody you're connected to on LinkedIn.

You'd be surprised how
many people will show up.

Scott Riley: What's the,

Pete Matheson: And you know, we Cool.

Scott Riley: Why, why wouldn't
you do the luncheon loans?

Cause we, we, we started , unfortunately,
we were just literally about to do

our first one and then Covid happened.

Um, why wouldn't you do them?

Because it's such a simple thing.

I guess maybe it's a, a space thing if
you don't think you've got the space

and probably a cost, I guess those are
probably the only two real barriers,

Andrew Moon: I

Pete Matheson: Yeah, but go and go
and speak to those vendors and they,

they've all got demo suites and, and
like you, when you meet them, they

say, Hey, come and see our demo suite.

And they show you round and
you're like, Oh, this is nice.

Imagine you could put an event on here.

And those things are empty
most of the time because

Scott Riley: but most of those they not,
I dunno if it's around where you are,

Scott, but most of the demo suites for
us are basically London or somewhere,

somewhere north of where we are.

There's, there's nothing on the south
coast here, so unless you want to get

all of your prospects to travel and
spend, you know, three or three or four

hours out of their time, which might
be worth it depending on the event

you're putting on, but not for lunch.

Andrew Moon: Look for coworking spaces.

Pete Matheson: really fair point.

Yeah.

Andrew Moon: Coworking spaces.

That is,

I mean, a

Scott Riley: actually to, to Scott's point
there as well, and Andrew's there, you can

mix the two because, um, again, going to
the MDF side of things, you can get the

vendors to then sponsor or, you know, MDF
funding whatever for the lunch and learns.

You know, if you can have someone,
I dunno, for example, maybe not

packs eight cause that's probably
not a good example for an MSP one.

But find one your key vendors.

See if, or, or even distributor or if
you know, essentially if it's gonna

help you sell more through that company.

Get them and ask them if they can help
sponsor that particular event, but get

'em to cover the cost of the room higher
and, you know, the 50 to a hundred qui

for the pizza or, or whatever it is.

Maybe put on something a bit PO than
a pizza, but . Um, but, but things

like that you can do at almost zero
cost by just having the discussions

with those vendors to see if
they're in interested in doing it.

Andrew Moon: Exactly.

And if you're looking for the process, by
the way, I think John uh, mentioned, uh,

he had taken my lunch and learn training.

If you're a tech tribe member, you
have access to it absolutely free.

And I have a six week checklist.

It was my checklist of running events
as an msp, what to do six weeks out,

five weeks out, four weeks out, all
the way down to day of and after.

It is everything to do.

Um, that's exactly I created.

Again, the first few were ugly as
you're figuring the process out, but

each one that we did, we got better
and we would debrief, Okay, what

do we want to change for next time?

What went well?

And we would just keep building on that.

And every quarter we did lunch and learns
and we invited not just prospects, invite

your clients to these lunch and learns.

And I'll tell you.

Your prospects are sitting
there or your customers are

sitting there next to prospects.

And when you're talking about things and
you don't have to brag about how good

you are because your customers sitting
in the audience will do that for you.

So testimonials and referrals.

Invite your best customers
to these events too.

Um, cuz they will come, your audience,
your fans will come and closing deals.

I closed the deal every single lunch and
learn that I did and some multiple deals

and a lot of that came from the referrals,
the test, the live testimonials of my

customers and the audience talking to
prospects and people that I've invited.

Um, so I think, you know, that lens, if we
look at that from, as an msp, a small msp,

that is something that you can do today.

That is something you can do to build
your relationship with your vendors today.

And, you know, we don't have to wait till
we're a $2 million company before we can

start taking advantage of those things.

Um, but I think, you know, again, we could
go on for days kind of talking about this,

but I, I wanted to breach this just from,
you know, from both sides of the fence.

Um, and I think that what people need to
understand right now, I don't know, Were

you guys running anything in the.com era?

I know, I'm, I'm dating myself, so,

Scott Riley: I think I was born
in the.com era, . I'm not sure.

Andrew Moon: so what I see going
on right now is what I see, What

I saw during the.com era is a
lot of venture cap equity based.

Everybody's being bought up.

Um, I'm surprised it's taken as long as it
has with the MSP industry, quite frankly.

But now I think we just need to, That's
what's happening, That's what's happening.

People realize there's money
to be made in the MSP industry.

Private equity is buying
a lot of your vendors.

There's nothing you can do about it.

And, but again, understanding, like you
said, Scott, understanding the mindset

of the people, what your reps now,
what their, you know, their parameters

have changed to what designates
success for them may be different

than it was prior to a purchase.

Um, so I think that there's, there's
part of things that if your vendors

listening to this and watching this,
that, that you can learn, a lot of

the complaints that are coming out
right now is people don't understand

when you take venture cap money, which
I have and I'll never do it again.

The rules change for you as a business
owner when you take somebody else's money.

It is all about getting their
ROI as fast as possible.

And we're not talking, you know,
if I borrow a million dollars, they

get their million dollars back.

It's, you borrow a million dollars, I
want five back and I want it in 36 months.

The rules change dramatically
for how you operate as a vendor.

And I think that's what the MSPs need
to understand is going on right now.

And a lot of MSPs, this is their
first business, this is their first

foray into the business world.

And it's frustrating because
guess what's happening right now?

Sales machines are being
set up to get that ROI.

For private equity companies,
that's just what they do.

That's, that's the nature of the beast.

So that's what we see going on right now.

Getting, you know, the, being in a 15 step
process from a sales rep at your vendor.

That's what's going on.

You're getting emails, you're
getting calls, you're, you're getting

pummeled after every trade show.

That's what sales people do.

That's what, that's the only way to
get multiples of whatever you borrowed

back to the people you borrowed from.

Um, so I think that's not going anywhere.

Can vendors get a little bit
better with that in the process?

Yes.

And I think it's by us having legitimate
conversations like this as adults, it's

annoying when we get multiple calls
from vendors and we're not interested

in buying, Move on to somebody else.

Don't call me 20 times after every
trade show, even though I never

attended your trade show booth.

You know, it's just, So I think
that there's certain things from

an, from a vendor perspective
that we can get better on.

Um, yeah.

What kind of led, I know
we're wrapping up on time.

Um, I, I think we got, we've gotta get
away from that us against them mentality.

Um, uh, and I, and I think that that,

Scott Riley: is worth, um, and we've
mentioned this in a in a few times,

we've had this discussion really
is just again, focus on the value

you can provide to your clients.

The value isn't really just selling them.

Support and services
and, you know, products.

It's actually the advice, the strategic
advice, helping them budget, helping

them forecast, helping them to, you
know, automate their business processes.

The things where you can really get
in, get under the business, you know,

get under the skin of the business
and try and help them and, you

know, help 'em be more productive.

Because I know we, we are always
seeing, like, we can all see in

the future, at some point it feels
like Microsoft's gonna go direct.

They've kind of forced people that,
that route with their 365 changes,

then they went back on them and
now everyone's in a bit of a mess.

Some clients are direct, some
clients are tied into annual,

some people are rolling still.

So it just feels like the, the way the
market is heading is that all the vendors

at some stage may or may not decide
to go direct and when, when that does.

So maybe, you know, if and when that
does happen, you need to be prepared

to be in a position where that doesn't
affect you dramatically as a business.

So whatever services you can provide,
whatever consultancy services you can

do, you know, the support service you're
billing, whether you're trying to do,

you know, the MSP model of recurring kind
of services or whatever your security

services you're providing that may or may
not just get wrapped up into 365 1 day.

So just have a think about what you're
providing and how you can actually

get more involved with the clients and
that, that is a challenge because, you

know, we all want to be treated as if
we were a director of that business.

You know, sat on the table learning
what's going on within that, our clients,

knowing what constraints they've got.

If, if they haven't got
budget, okay, let us know.

We can see what we can work with for you.

You know, can we try and stretch your
IT out for the next year or two rather

than most of us, and, you know, have
to be plenty of times where we just

get no, we're not gonna buy that.

Okay.

You need to buy something because
that's a massive security risk.

So is there a halfway house?

And you try and have those discussions.

So it's trying to make you make
your, um, and I, and I dunno the

answer to that, that that might
be a discussion for another time.

But how do you get to that
level with your clients?

And, and that's the challenge.

I think it's the ultimate challenge
of getting to the stage where

they, you know, legitimately trust
you, legitimately respect you,

not just that, your reply to them.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, that's Mary.

Mary just, uh, put in a message as well.

She said A challenge for vendors
is to simplify the problem they're

solving for the MSP and their customer.

I hear super technical
conversations that beat people up.

You need to have one sentence
summary, and again, if you're

a tech

Pete Matheson: do you know what else I.

Andrew Moon: we teach that you've
got access to all that training,

30 day growth map that teaches you
what that one sentence of value

that you bring to your customers.

So it's free.

Y'all have access to it.

Or are you gonna say,
Scott, sorry to cut you off.

Pete Matheson: No, no, you're all good.

I was gonna say, the, the other
thing that I think that we need

from all vendors, large and small,
is transparency around pricing.

Because I, you always feel
that you're getting the wrong

price, you're paying too much.

Um, whatever the price is on the website,
whatever that first quote is, you always

feel like it's not the real price.

And if only you knew someone who knew
someone, you could get the real price,

but you're just gonna pay too much.

You always feel that way.

And I'll give you a 62nd
summary of a perfect example.

Um, working with IBM through their
IBM partner program for many years,

we were reinvesting what would be a
million pounds into some, um, service

stacks for our on-premise cloud.

Um, and we went through the deals
and through the deals and through the

deals and all the discount codes and
everything, our account manager could

find out through ibm and we got the
price down to 500,000 code dollars.

Keep it simple.

Um, we got it down to
500,000, half of a million.

Brilliant.

We've reduced it 50%.

Um, just before we signed the deal,
we had one guy in-house and it was

his job to buy laptops and desktops
and he said, Let me just have a look.

Let me just have a word with some of my
contacts and let me just see if there's

anything else to squeeze out of this.

260,000 pounds.

We ended up paying

Andrew Moon: think,

Pete Matheson: and we'd been on this for
months, going round and round in circles

with everyone that we could, you know,
all the partner account managers, all

the discount vouchers, all the the codes.

And it turned out that our guy who buys
laptops and desktops understood their

discount mechanisms better than they did.

And so he knew which levers to pull to get
the price down from a million to 260,000.

And even the guys at IBM didn't know the
right buttons to press or the right words

to say to get the discounts, but he did,
cuz he'd been doing this for 20 years.

And I just think.

That level of transparency inside the
vendor because the account managers

are pushed in a lot of those places
to change roles every 12 to 24 months.

And so that intelligence around
those MDF funds and discounts

is lost on a regular basis.

Having a transparent pricing system
with transparent discount rates

that we could all understand inside
the vendor and in partner world

would make life so much easier.

We would generally just
go, Yeah, I get it.

I'm not buying a hundred of these,
so I have to pay this price.

Okay.

I just don't feel like it's there,
and so I always feel like we're,

we're not getting the right price.

Whenever we look at any of these guys,

Andrew Moon: Yeah, and it's just the.

Scott Riley: Cause lots of the, the
vendor tools are overcomplicated.

I remember the, um, Oh, what was it?

What, what, what is the, the
Cisco bill of materials quoting

tool, which is just horrendous.

It, it may or may not have changed,
but there's very similar things.

Even when, you know, you're expecting up
a HP server or whatever it is, you just

need to go to the vendor tools website.

You, you fill in your quote and it should
just spit out at the end, Okay, Oh, you've

met the requirements for, uh, you know,
it's, it could be deal registration.

Now you get extra discount and
here's the, here's the price.

But the vendors

Pete Matheson: We need
the domino deal finder.

Scott Riley: Yeah,

Andrew Moon: Yeah,

Scott Riley: we need honey, the
browser extension that goes, ah, you're

trying to buy a HP server, go and buy

But yeah, exactly that.

It is vastly overcomplicated where
exactly as you've experienced, people

themselves don't understand the,
the intricacies that are involved.

So, uh, yeah, if there's any, any
request that we could really give out

is just please vendors, just try and
simplify the tools that you've got.

Um, don't have to simplify the
discounts, simplify the quoting

tools so you can just kind of click
a button, it goes, Okay, here's the

best price you can get, and that's it.

Andrew Moon: yeah, for sure.

And I think, you know, that's
the, that's the, in the challenge,

I think over the last few years
too, because people are chasing.

That roi, especially in the MSP
space and the volatility of the

market and all of that fluctuation,
which I don't think we're done with.

Um, I would love to see that change.

Dell, unfortunately, that's, I
stopped selling Dell way back

in 2005, 2006 because of that.

Because you would go online,
do the deal registration, build

out the thing, here's the price.

Customer would go online, build out the
exact same thing and get a cheaper price.

So yeah, there's, I get a long story with
Dell, don't even get me started anyway.

Um, but I think here, at the end of
the day, I, what I would like to see,

what I know MSPs want, what we want
is just a bit more unification and

a bit more, you know, I think better
discussion mechanism, if you will,

around the challenges on both sides.

And I think just for an MSP
understanding, What it, what it is

to be a vendor in this space now.

And, you know, the guys, the upstarts, the
guys that are still small companies that

are running it themselves, it's great, but
plan for the fact that they may be bought.

I mean, that's just the, that's
the market that is not going

anywhere in the next 18 months.

If anything, I think at the latter
half of the next 18 months, we're

gonna be down to one or two companies
owning everything in the MSP space.

That's just my personal
prediction on that.

We're already starting to see it.

Um, but I think you'll see that
condensed down even a bit more.

Uh, that's just the nature of life.

Um, I would like to see as an msp us
concentrating on more, how do we bring

that value to the customer, dig deeper
and go beyond just selling help desk

services and fixing crap when it's broke.

We gotta go from that janitor
to being seen as the ceo.

Um, And I think that there's a lot
of room for, for us to improve.

And I think it starts with the discussions
that we have in our MSP spaces.

Regardless if that's on Reddit
tech, try wherever it is.

I think we have better discussions,
more elevated discussions in those

forums that makes us better business
people to solve those problems for our

customers, because there's not, we're
not gonna be able to fix everything

that we hate about all the vendors.

I mean, that's just,
that's not an ideal world.

But again, approaching it when, when
those mistakes happen, when expectations

aren't met, we would like that
benefit of the dow from our customers.

And I think a little bit more
of that can go towards the

vendors at this point as well.

Um, some of that reciprocation, I
just would like to see more of a

unification we're I, I see too much
this year with MSPs fighting vendors

and the bad guys are winning right now.

The bad guys are getting into places
that they shouldn't be because

we're too busy fighting each other.

That's just, do you guys
see that any different?

What is kind of your last takeaway,
uh, as a parting gift to everybody?

Cuz we're just about, we're, we're
just past noon here on the East coast.

So

Scott Riley: think for me

Pete Matheson: I, I, I think go,

Andrew Moon: rock,

paper, scissors, lizard

Scott Riley: say, for me, I think
it would just be, um, my request, I

guess would be, I think just to level
the playing field of the vendors.

Um, yeah, Westway had a very good
point there of, you know, finding

a laptop on Monday and the price
has now changed two days later.

Same, same laptop, same vendor.

And in those instances, I feel the, the
larger, more established MSPs would just

be able to turn around and say, Well,
no, we want the laptop for that price.

Give it to us for that
price we had on Monday.

And the vendors would probably turn around
and say, Yeah, sure, that's fine, because

they spend a lot of money with them.

But the smaller vendors, you
know, the smaller MSPs, our

nimble MSPs, Wouldn't get that.

They get the answer off,
Nope, that's what it is.

You just gotta pay the new price.

And that doesn't help us when we're
trying to, you know, potentially be

the bigger businesses off tomorrow
and be able to scale our businesses.

And I had very similar, you
know, circumstances with, uh,

you know, it was a Citrix deal
specifically of a Citrix renewal.

We got quoted one price, it expired.

We were told, Nope, you
gotta quote the new price.

Whereas the other vendor who
was a much larger vendor was

bigger, bigger and better than us.

They just said, Nope, we
just want the old price.

We'll go and buy it the old price please.

And they said, Yes, of
course, whatever you say.

So I think definitely leveling the
playing field is something that, um,

you know, my request to the vendors and,
um, I guess just to reiterate what all

of us have said really in this session
is just try and focus your efforts.

You know, the vendors are
really much out of your control.

You, you don't have any
control of what they're doing.

Who's gonna buy who and how.

They're gonna structure their
kind of, you know, um, their,

their teams and their promotions.

The thing you do have control
over is your business and the

services you offer to your clients.

And the focus there is definitely on
getting as involved with your clients

as possible, getting as much face to
face time with them as possible, getting

into their businesses, providing as
much value as possible, getting into

that level, getting into the CEO level
to the directorship level where you can

sit at the table when they're having
their, you know, quarterly or monthly or

annual like board, you know, shareholder
meetings where you can go and give

them that strategy, the advice and the
guidance that they probably don't have.

And it's trying to get that the
whole like no, like, and trust

factor so you can get to that level.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

And it, it just, it takes effort.

Um, it, but again, it takes that
constant getting better and not just,

Okay, we signed an MSP contract.

Yeah, we're providing the
deliverables and that's it.

Uh, if you dig deeper, I mean, I
remember when things changed for me.

I remember that as an MSP when our
largest attorney client was getting

ready to expand and he called me in
to, with the rest of the partners,

the architect, the interior designer.

When you get into those meetings at
that level, then, you know, you're

providing way more than just tech support.

And that's awesome.

When you have a seat at the
table with everybody else making

decisions and they're looking to
you, How do we, I, how do, what's

our technology spend gotta be here?

You know, what, what do
we have to do different?

When you're involved at that level, price,
those types of things go out the window.

It's not, you're not
negotiating over price.

This is the value we bring.

This is how much it it is, and
there's no questions asked.

Um, but again, it's
just delivering on that.

Yeah.

All right guys.

Thank you so much for
hanging out with us today.

Uh, Mary, uh, John, uh, Richard, if
you're still on the call, uh, Jason, if

you're still here and those of you happen
to watch this on the replay or listen

to the podcast, uh, we appreciate you.

Uh, if you happen to see this on
YouTube, please like and subscribe.

We gotta do our thing.

And Mary, I thank you so much for, for
leaving us with that rela relationship.

It's all about the relationship.

You know, I had to use
the broadcaster pro.

I gotta throw those things in there
just to have fun on these streams.

Um, but anyway, yeah.

So let us know what you would like to
cover us to cover in future episodes.

We're always happy to, to light the fire.

I thought we were, I think, you know,
I think we did pretty good again

this week, not burning stuff down.

So, uh, Pete's gonna have to really
show us the full demo of the vr.

Pete Matheson: He's
gonna fly off into space

Scott Riley: I was just doing the
dramatic ending where I can, Yeah.

Fly

Andrew Moon: Actually, let me zoom it.

We'll put Pete full

screen.

He he can zoom no

legs.

Scott Riley: But I can show you around

Pete Matheson: Mr.

Where are your trousers?

Andrew Moon: That's awesome.

Might have to do a show on this.

Unfortunately, our podcast listeners
won't be able to fully benefit from that.

That's awesome.

All right folks, we
will see you next week.

Hopefully we will have
Richard with us next week.

Uh, I know Richard probably had a
ton to say with about vendors today.

Uh, so we'll maybe we'll have
to do a part do on this one.

So, all right folks, Take care.

That's it for us and we
will see you next week.

Pete Matheson: See you guys.

Scott Riley: Bye.