The NOT an MSP Show

Andrew Moon: Welcome to episode of
the first episode of our new show.

It is the orange Noma, Andrew Moon,
and my trusted partner in crime today.

Mr.

Pete Matheson, how are
you all doing today?

looks like we've got some
alive guests joining us.

So we've got, let me go
back and make, so Matt St.

STBA is calling in from
Dallas, Texas today.

So welcome Matt.

We appreciate that.

And Jeremy, let me know Jeremy,
Brian, whether or not you're tuning

in from Belfast, Maine, or Belfast
Ireland, because I actually lived in

Belfast, Maine, and it is completely
different from Belfast Ireland.

So welcome.

Welcome, welcome.

So, yeah, we got another, another one
joining us today, Trenton, uh, Schuller.

Hopefully I pronounce that.

Correct.

Awesome.

Int he loves the intro tune.

So start of the day in
Northern California.

So there's your nice intro music.

So nice, nice little
upbeat to start our day.

So Pete, how's it going today?

He's at the end of his day.

So how's your day going so far?

Nice.

Pete Matheson: It's going really well.

I've just seen Billy's comment.

Say I need to invest
in better sun blocker.

I've um, I've spent the last,
like it's like 30 in the UK

here, which never ever happens.

Are you not outside enjoying the sun?

Andrew Moon: So that's why
I've got all those shades.

So

Pete Matheson: this week is basically
where I build up my tan, that,

that lasts me the rest of the year.

So I've gotta try and do the best I can.

And if getting burned and, and
getting like really tanned is,

is yeah, , I'm doing my best.

Andrew Moon: awesome.

So anyway, so you're probably, we've
probably got a lot of people wondering

what happened to behind the geeks.

Uh, so Pete, you wanna tell everybody
what happened and the transition

and just why we're kind of going
in a different direction that way.

Everybody knows.

Since, since you've
got a little bit of the

Pete Matheson: huge opportunity.

Andrew Moon: we did.

Pete Matheson: We could have titled
the show, like, um, Confronting

the, the reason why Nigel left
or like something like that.

Andrew Moon: We can still click bait.

We can still click bait this.

So we, we do have the recording.

So

Pete Matheson: yes, there, there
isn't really a, um, a Robert

Gibbs and there isn't really
like a, a, a, we didn't fall out.

There's no issues at all.

Basically what happened
is the time has changed.

And, um, with the time changes, I dunno
if you, if you guys know, but trying to

schedule somebody in the UK and Aussie
and New Zealand, which are completely

opposite ends of the world and on
completely opposite time, time kind

of zones, it, it was just impossible.

The shows were falling in line with
Nigels, um, like kids, um, food

time, which, which isn't really on.

And he was doing it for like two or three
months, I think still, um, whilst his

kids were downstairs eating and, you know,
getting ready for bed or what have you.

So we decided just to, um, separate
that and just, you know, there's

no point in Nigel being there
we've got kind of, there was.

Two three Brits on the show with,
with Richard tubs being there as well.

He's just sitting out for a few weeks.

Um, but we'll be back soon.

We hope.

And so you basically left with me,
Andrew and, um, and Scott, who is

currently on a flight somewhere.

He did say that he was gonna
try and jump in through, uh,

the wifi that was on the flight.

But I, I, Scott, I was only joking
if you're watching this back on the

replay, I, I do not expect you to be
sat next to somebody on a flight and,

uh, and live streaming at the same time.

Like just, just chill out
and, uh, enjoy the flight.

Enjoy the, like how long the flight is.

Andrew Moon: was wondering
how that was gonna go.

I was like, okay, we'll have our
first live stream from an airplane.

That would be epic.

So,

Pete Matheson: would really test how
good the wifi is on the, on, on board.

Andrew Moon: I think it would, uh,
I think we just, you know, pipe the,

our intro music out to the plane too.

Let everybody just chill.

So.

Uh, but I know it, we were just
talking before the show started.

Uh, Scott's been the only
one to see top gun so far.

So since you're on a plane, Scott, and if
you're watching this replay, if you happen

to be listening to this, this is for you.

This is a little top gun music there.

That's probably all we're gonna play
before we get kicked off the air.

So thank, thank you, Kenny
logs, taking me back in time.

So but anybody else has seen top
gun put down in the comments too.

I wanna see what your thoughts
of top gun, where I haven't seen

it yet wanting to go see it.

I saw the original in movie theaters, so
yes, I time stamped my age right there.

So

Pete Matheson: I'm waiting to see it.

I've I've obviously saw the original,
I have not seen the, uh, the new one.

I've heard very, very
good things about it.

So, uh, hoping, hoping to see
that soon things that like cinemas

over here are so expensive.

I dunno if it's the same over there,
the tickets are super expensive.

And if you, you know, my God, if you
buy a drink or food, like 30, 40, 50

pounds, like straight away for like a
couple people to go out and see a film.

So I'm kind of getting to the stage
now where I'm just like, ah, just,

just wait, it'll be in the, like in
the live streaming services sometime

soon or, or accessible another way.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

I just it's, you know, I miss that
movie theater experience, but I'm with

you, it's like, by the time you drive
over there, I mean, I don't want what

gas prices have hit for, for you over
there, but they're ridiculous here.

So, um,

Pete Matheson: almost two pounds,
uh, per liter that we do over here.

And honestly, I don't really know
cuz where I drive an electric car.

I kind of thankfully
avoid a lot of this stuff.

Andrew Moon: yeah.

Good for you.

Good for you.

I, it would be nice.

I, I, I wanted to get my
name on the Ford lightning.

But that is a two year wait list,
but I think I'm gonna add my, yeah,

but I wanna add my name to that cuz
I was like, I can, it's a generator.

I can run.

I can power my whole house
for three days from my truck.

So that would be dope.

So

Pete Matheson: That's awesome.

Andrew Moon: anyway, so let's
just go through any comments here.

This is, we figured since this
is our first episode, we get

that out in the, out in the air.

What happened with the show?

Why we're changing all
that good fun stuff.

So no, none of us have
parted ways from Nigel.

We still love, I just figured
I'd wear all the orange in a

different manner instead of my hair.

So, um, I think I, I I've talked, I've
joked with him about getting a tech

tribe hat and putting the orange hair.

Cuz they actually make those here in
the states where you can actually it's

a hat, but it comes with hair too.

So

Pete Matheson: Yeah.

Andrew Moon: I was like,

Pete Matheson: Isn't that that's
is that like a Scottish thing?

Andrew Moon: I

Pete Matheson: The whole,

Andrew Moon: know.

I don't know.

I don't know where he, where he, you
know, why he decided to go from the,

the, the shaved head look to, uh, the,
it must be the surfing environment.

It must be, you know, two

Pete Matheson: like,

Andrew Moon: Yeah, I think so.

But we figure we would do in an
ask us anything episode here.

Um, just if you've got questions
about running an MSP, if you've got

mark sales, marketing, operations,
whatever it is, uh, for those of

you tuning in live, you get to ask
those questions live from Pete and I.

Um, so let's see here, we've got a

Pete Matheson: I I've, I've got two
things that I was gonna, um, kick off

with Andrew, if that was right, just
to, um, fill in some space whilst

we are, um, seeing who is around.

I, um, I had a couple messages
one yesterday, one day before

from, and this is going back
now to two or three shows ago.

I think you guys were talking about
live streaming about videos, um,

and just kinda getting started
with, with using videos in your MSP.

And one of my coaching clients, if
I find the, find the chat, and this

is gonna be in my newsletter, uh,
that I put out every, every month.

Oh, where did it go?

Um, basically he, he has had like three
clients off of his, uh, oh, here we go.

Uh, no, that's the wrong person.

I'm, I'm looking for
completely wrong messages here.

No, that we basically had a
client who, um, here we go.

Dunno what happened in my, on my poor
neglected YouTube channel, but in, I've

got four paying new customers through it.

This is a guy that has a YouTube channel
that has not that many subscribers.

So for those people that are kind of
thinking about, you know, starting doing

video and, um, you're worried that you
haven't got 10,000, 50,000, like a hundred

thousand, whatever it is, subscribers,
you don't need that many subscribers.

You just need as many who are actually
interested in your services, like

10 people subscribe to you who are
actually interested in what you do is

better than a hundred, that don't care
anything about you or what you do.

Um, so that was the first
one that came through.

Uh, and my response to that was
we'll do some more YouTube videos

then, cuz it's obviously working

Andrew Moon: Yeah, for sure.

Yep.

Pete Matheson: and another guy, um,
JS who started doing videos this week

he's, he's like seven days in and
he's already had a lead into a 30

person company, uh, for it support.

And that's just doing.

He, he sent me the message, um, cuz he
was, he was doing, he was shooting TikTok

videos and I think he's repurposing,
you know, he download them from TikTok

and it's got the branding on it and
repurpose them on, uh, on LinkedIn.

And uh, he, he was telling me about
it and I was like, please, God don't

don't tell me it was TikTok that got
you the leads I mean, it's, it's great,

but that that'll be incredible, but it
was a TikTok he taken from TikTok and

then put onto LinkedIn and it was via
LinkedIn, uh, that he got the leads.

But um, but yeah, seven days, first, seven
days of doing video and I already see like

the engagement, all of his posts is so
much higher because people are commenting.

They're like, ah, this guy's doing video.

Wow.

And it's just, it's so much
more like attractive engaging.

Interesting.

And, and just break through that kind
of everything else that's going on.

Um, with like LinkedIn, there's so many
like people posting about how amazing

they are, about how fast they've grown.

Um, It's just nice to see just
a down to worth regular video.

Like someone just literally holding
up a phone, speaking to camera.

So, yeah, ma massive congratulations
to, to those two guys, um, for, for

Andrew Moon: we

Pete Matheson: doing YouTube, doing
video and seeing the, you know,

reaping the, reaping the rewards.

Andrew Moon: we get to get
him the applause button.

Nice job.

And it's, that is an interesting dynamic
with video and it's that, that, that I

have seen myself and that people, that
trust factor, because there's a huge gap.

There's a huge trust gap between
when somebody first figure, you

know, figures out, they need it
services to actually picking some.

So we've gotta, we've gotta
bridge that gap somehow.

And I think video is the easiest
way to do it because when I look you

straight in the eye right here, I feel
like I know you when we have those

conversations and in, and that is the
beautiful thing with it and closing,

Pete Matheson: you.

It's gonna be really
awkward when we first meet

Andrew Moon: I think so too, it's like,
you know, so many people that I've met

in the last couple years doing these live
streams that I have never met in person.

I mean, you and you were the first
person that I interviewed on my show and

you and I have never met in real life.

Um, so yeah, it is gonna
be totally weird, uh, when.

People, I think it we've we're
I think you'll be let down.

So anyway,

Pete Matheson: Well, I'm
very much an introvert.

So even if we're in the same room, I've
probably just gotta hang around the edge.

You won't really like walk up to anybody.

I'll talk to anybody.

Andrew Moon: that's kind of me too.

And it is funny cuz it's like when
you go to it conferences and stuff

that's I mean it, 90% of the, the
traffic is we're all introverts.

And if, if it were up to us,
everybody'd be standing around

the middle of the walls.

Nobody'd be talking to each other.

So,

Pete Matheson: mm-hmm , which is
weird though, because everyone thinks,

because you're doing videos that you
are more of an extrovert because you

are like putting yourself out there
and doing all these silly things.

But I I've been asked a few times to
talk at various events, you know, it like

real, real life people events, and it,
it scares the shit out of me, cuz I'm

gonna have to actually stand in front of
people and talk it's something I wanna do.

I wanna get better at it.

And the only way to get
better at it is to do it.

But, um, yeah.

It's yeah, really scary.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, I, I miss it.

And I think that was one of the
things that I did as an MSP that I

think has helped me behind video.

I, I will tell you it is
much easier to do video.

Um, cuz I've done three public speaking
engagements in the last month and a half.

And the first one after two years.

Yeah, there was, I was, I
did O my wife tells me I did.

Okay.

But yeah, I was a nervous wreck cuz I'm
like, okay, that's completely different

than looking at a teleprompter, having
my notes right there and trying to

read off my notes off an iPad to a
live crowd, uh, completely different.

So it's we got LinkedIn user.

Let's see who that is.

James Kemp.

Welcome James.

Uh, he's from your neck of the woods.

I think your privacy settings there's
actually, you and I are showing up as

a third level connection, and I know
we're first level connections, James.

So that is weird.

Anyway, glitch in the matrix.

We'll blame it on a glitch in the matrix.

So, uh, Alex Harvey said
yes, uh, nice work jazz.

Um, but yeah, so I think that
that is a perfect example of it.

So, um, do you have Jazz's uh,
LinkedIn or YouTube channel

that people could check out?

We can pop that in the comments and

Pete Matheson: If

Andrew Moon: yeah, I was gonna
say, we're gonna throw, throw

some shade on him, so all cool.

So let's see here.

James said a comment
I heard the other day.

Uh, oh, you have legs,
not just a bobbing head.

So somebody saw him in real life.

Bobble head.

That would be a good, that
would be an interesting one.

Get my own bobble head
with or orange headphones.

Pete Matheson: we always used to have
that as, um, we always used to have

that at, um, like staff events with the
MSP, like everyone's used to, obviously

we, we wore, we weren't too bad.

We wore.

Normal normal clothes, uh, in the office.

And then when we went out to
customer sites or if clients

came in, then we wear uniform.

But the client, the, the MSPR working
out beforehand was just uniform.

So whenever you like have a staff
event, it's like, oh, it's, it's

weird seeing you wear clothes.

It just sounds really wrong,
but you don't clothes.

Andrew Moon: exactly.

It, it, it is just funny as like now,
you know, I always dressed up when

we did the events, not in the, the
full suit and tie deal, but yeah,

I'm with, I'm kind of with you.

We had a dress code, um, which is
funny because that actually lends to a

question that came up for me this week
from, uh, one of my coaching clients.

And I, I saw that in a couple forums is,
do you enforce a dress code for onsite?

Why or why not?

Like what would your
recommendation go since you?

Pete Matheson: Yeah.

Um, the way, the way I like doing
it is that yeah, definitely in.

Inside your own offices.

I don't care what people wear.

I, whatever makes 'em comfortable,
particularly on days like this.

Like some, some places you go and like
you're not allowed to wear shorts.

Like no we're grownups like wear shorts.

Um, in terms of own client sites,
I think that's a bit different cuz

you kind of wanna, um, you know,
certainly from my perspective, like

building this brand and growing,
growing this business, it, you need to

have a certain level of expectations.

However, I don't think it's worth going
all of the way where you are like suited

and booted, like shirt and tie because
we all know you're crawling around desks.

You're in server rooms, the number of
trousers like posh trousers are ripped

over my life of just getting them caught
and snagged on cables or something.

So, um, so yeah, just, just something.

Andrew Moon: Yep.

Pete Matheson: I guess smart, casual
would say, um, is probably what it

should be, but, um, just with a, like
a open buttons kind of branded shirt,

whether it's a, um, whether it's a
polo shirt, whether it's like a button

up shirt, again, I don't really care.

Just something with a logo on.

Uh, and again, something that's, that's
comfortable for people to wear, cuz

I think it's, and of course, what if
you're having like, you know, company

photos, it's great to have everyone
wearing the kind of same kind of uniform.

Yep.

Looks great.

But equally when kind of behind
closed doors, so to speak when

people are just working, um, back
at their desks, I don't care.

Yeah.

Uh, Rob Ellis puts it really well
dress for your day if you're going

out and seeing clients then of course.

Yeah, absolutely puts something a bit
smart on, but uh, most of the time,

um, I, I technically, we don't know
if Andrew's wearing any trousers.

I could be completely
like naked below here,

Andrew Moon: don't make me

Pete Matheson: for the occasion.

Like we say,

Andrew Moon: now I'm busting in the shorts
and t-shirt for short now I'm with you.

It, it.

for me, it's that is our brand presence.

And whether you like it or not,
people are making a judgment about

your brand, which is your company.

Um, so that for me was important.

We were a hundred percent remote anyway.

So for the most part, I like, I
don't care, you know what you were,

you know, we doing tickets at home.

Uh, but yeah, if, if we had to send you
on site orange shirt and whether that

was a, we had polos with our logo on it
and I'm with you, we had black tactical

pants just because of that issue.

Yeah.

You're gonna be crawling around.

I wanted something that could hold up to
the wear and tears, but yeah, black ack.

It was, it was a, it was a awesome
look too, because when you walk in, you

know, I mean, it was just, people knew.

Um, I mean, it was, it was, and I mean, it
was what was weird and really emphasized.

The fact of brand on me is when I, when
I sold my MSP, I stayed on for six months

while we integrated everything together.

And when I went back into my largest
attorney client for the first

time wearing a different shirt,
different color, different logo,

that was the first thing people said.

When I walked in the door, they were
like, you need to go do redo all of

their marketing, cuz they're like,
we're we don't like this and they

were like, we love the orange shirts.

We knew when, you know, we knew when
you guys were in the building and it

was great because everybody knew and
you know, we did get, we got clients

in that same building because yeah.

They saw, saw the guy in the,
the guys in the orange shirt and

black tactical pants come in.

They knew we were, we were
getting ready to do some work.

Um, so yeah, I mean at, I think it
is strictly for the branding and

again, it's, it's hard because we
don't wanna, you know, it, you know,

be driving people to do certain
things, you know, against their will.

But I think, you know, from that aspect,
it, it does, it makes a huge difference.

So I, I I'm.

Pete Matheson: think certainly when,
when we took to our, you know, took our

staff on the fact that you already say
to them, look, you know, when you're

in the office, I don't really care
what you wear as long as you are well

presented when you're going out to see
clients and you've, you've got branded

shirt and you explain that front.

I I've never, ever had an issue with
that, because if anything, they're more

appreciative that you can wear whatever
you want, you know, at most of the time,

unless you, unless you're seeing clients.

So yeah, that, that, that's
certain the way I'd go to.

Yeah.

Andrew Moon: And we reimbursed for it.

Like I didn't, I didn't expect, you
know, them to go pay for a nice polo

shirt and I wanted to, at least I was
like, okay, here, order your size order,

your shirt, have it delivered to you.

We paid for it.

Um, cuz I was the other debate is who pays
for it and if you make them pay for it,

like I would be, that would make me mad
if I was a tech and somebody enforced a

dress code when I go on site and then made

Pete Matheson: Are they
not branded yet as well?

They've got your MSP logo on them as well.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Yeah.

Pete Matheson: Yeah.

See, I would never, I dunno if
it's different over here in, in

the UK, but I, I would never ever
say you need to wear uniform and

now you need to go and pay for it.

That that just wouldn't fly at all ever.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, I would, I spent
some time in the car business over here.

You know, it is a weird industry,
uh, but I worked for one guy and

that was, you know, they sold all
the high end European brands, you

know, Porsche Ferrari Maserati.

And that was the thing you had to
wear khaki pants and a white button

up shirt with his logo on it.

But we had to pay for it.

And I was like, you gotta be kidding me.

And those shirts were, you
know, lands and shirts.

That was, they only had one
place we could order 'em from.

And they were like 65 bucks a shirt.

And I'm like, that's ridiculous.

I was like, my, my whole first paycheck
went to buying shirts because yeah, you

go out in a 95 degree heat like that.

Shirt's not gonna last very long.

So anyway, I mean, I think
that's a good point, you know,

Pete Matheson: through some questions.

We've got load of questions in the, uh, on

Andrew Moon: Exactly.

I've got those favorited.

So that's a nice thing with E cam.

I can actually favorite
them and go back to them.

Uh, that was the thing I liked
much better than restream.

So let's go ahead and start
firing on the question.

If you answered that first one
about wearing, having some sort of

dress code when people are on site.

Uh, this one here, we'll go ahead and add
this into the broadcast from job tech.

He's a one man, MSP
working outta my house.

How would you prioritize hiring your
first employee or getting office space?

Pete Matheson: Personally, I would
say avoid getting office space as

much as you can, cuz that's just extra
overhead costs that you just don't need.

Certainly when you're starting up.

Um, I remember ripping out the back end of
my living room when we first started up.

Uh, so I could squeeze three desks
into the back of my living room

and I had like, I had a drum kit.

I had a piano, I had this whole like music
thing that was going on in my living.

Ripped it all out to make space because
it's that versus committing hundreds, if

not thousands to rent taxes, insurance,
all the things that add up, um, utilities

broadband, but everything else starts
adding up as soon as you start doing this.

So I, yeah, I, I, firstly stay away
from, um, you know, getting office space

particularly more days nowadays with,
with, you know, the kind of rise of remote

working and in terms of the first hire,
I think my response to that normally

is it depends a what you're passionate
about and what you want to be doing.

And B what's taking up
the most of your time.

So if you love doing the technical
engineering stuff, there is no reason.

Actually I had a, um, not a
disagreement with, uh, Tom Lawrence.

Uh, I think I posted on
LinkedIn basically saying that.

It there's one type of person to be a
good engineer, but you need to turn around

at some point and let that go and find
another good engineer to replace you.

So you can then be a good business owner.

And Tom's basic response
was what if you want to be?

You know, what, if you're happy
being a good engineer and you are

just not a good business owner.

Cause he, what he's done is he's
brought someone in to run the company

and let him sat there and still doing,
obviously doing the YouTube videos,

but being an engineer at heart.

So you find what you're good at and what
you enjoy doing, and then bring someone

in to do the bit that's taking up too much
time doing the stuff you don't like doing.

It can be completely different
depending on who you are and

what you like doing that.

There is no like.

How your first hire is gonna
be an engineer, then it's gonna

be an account manager or, you
know, whatever it might be.

Um, I think the, the, the only kind
of, and we mentioned it, I'm sure we

mentioned it last week or the week before.

The only acceptance to that is I would
probably go out and get a bookkeeper as

one of my first kind of outsourced roles.

Just to get the account stuff O off your
kind of shoulders, sending invoices,

chasing invoices, uh, reconciling
payments, doing all your tax stuff

with, within your accountancy system.

Get rid of that.

As soon as you you're paying certainly
in this country between 20 to 25 pounds

an hour for that, and only really you
need maybe an hour or two of that a

week just to stay on top of everything.

So just get that off
your, off your shoulders.

And then again, it frees your time up
to then go and do the rest of the stuff.

Um, what do you think Andrew.

Andrew Moon: I agree with you there.

I mean, because for me, like I got to
a point where like, once we started

doing sales and marketing stuff and
I, I actually started to get it.

I really enjoyed that part of things.

And I, you know, I, I liked the
technical work I could do, but I knew

there were people way smarter than
me and were way more into it than.

But my first hire was actually an admin.

I hired an admin to take care of
the little stuff so that I could

concentrate on running the business.

And then we got to the point
where, okay, my second hire was

actually a virtual help desk person.

So he handled, you know, those first
level support calls and, you know,

we trained him and he became great.

And it was awesome because I found
him through a friend of mine and

he was actually working the night
shift front desk at a hotel.

So he was awesome at customer service.

He tinkered on the side, had his
own, you know, gaming rig and stuff.

So he liked the tech, but he was
really into customer service and

that's the part I couldn't teach.

Um, and he, he ended up being a phenomenal
hire and ended up running the help desk.

And that's, you know, I trained
him all the way through that.

um, so yeah, it differs for everybody, but
that was, for me, that was my first hire.

Do the admin.

That way I can, they can take care of
setting up processes and systems, you

know, initially setting up our SOP system.

Um, and then I move forward
to the, the technical role.

Um, so, but yeah, I mean, bookkeeping
I'm with you, you can automate so

much, like I didn't have a bookkeeper.

I mean, I did, I sent my, our
books to somebody at the end

of the year to do the taxes.

That was it.

But for me, everything else was automated
from ConnectWise into QuickBooks.

I mean, I had everything so
systematized that it wasn't much

for me to take, you know, half
hour at the, you know, reconcile

the books at the end of the week.

That's literally all it took me.

Um, but no, that is a great question.

And it is a dilemma that a lot of
nimble MSPs have is they get to that

point where your workload outstrips
your ability to do it all yourself.

Um, And usually I, I found that
the hardest range income range was

your, when your MRIs around 200 to
$250,000 a year, um, because you

Pete Matheson: Is in what, the hardest to
hardest to hire or what do you say there?

Andrew Moon: it's the hardest, because
you're, you're at that point where

you don't really have enough money
to pay yourself well and go out

and hire somebody that can actually
take that technical role over

Pete Matheson: Uh, I would say,

Andrew Moon: Um, you know, the,
the entry level help desk guys,

you know, that's not too much.

I started my guy part-time I
worked him a few days a week

and then he bloomed into full-.

Um, but he was a hundred percent remote.

Um, but yeah, the admin and.

Pete Matheson: that's why you, um,
and certainly the way I, I've kind

of gone with my, my journey and
what I recommend to anyone I speak

to essentially is just try and nail
down those Mon the monthly contracts.

Cause by growing the monthly contracts
that does then give you the income to

then pay for that as the next person,
you know, you're getting X amount of

money in every month, you know, full
well, whether you can afford to pay

X amount out for the member of staff.

The only thing I would say is just make
sure I've just taken on a full-time,

um, like actual employee here.

And again, just remember that it's not
just the, the salary you're covering,

you're also covering all the other
additional like taxes, pensions and

everything that adds up on top to like an
extra, so like an extra 10 or 15% in terms

of their salary that you have to pay out.

So those kind of things
caught me a bit off guard.

Again, having forgot about
'em for a couple of years.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

And I think, you know, um, that is the
thing that people forget about there

is it's not just a $35,000 a year, you
know, tech that you're hiring or an

admin, you know, it's more like 50.

I mean, if, if you really rounded up
and that's what I kind of used, um, I'm

trying to think of what was, um, his
name just left me kind of the benchmark

that at least for the, when I was at
my business 10 years, The benchmark

where we would make any decision on
hiring was at the 250,000 increments.

Like when you go from two 50 to 500,
when you hit 500 you're, you've got

the, the payroll basically to be able
to bring somebody else on full time.

And again, so if you want to
it's, it may be higher than that.

Now.

I don't know.

Uh, but that was my benchmark.

I knew that how do we get more
out of the people that we hired

to get to that next benchmark?

And the next benchmark is
500, 7 50 and then a million.

Um, yeah, once you hit the million,
once you get in that seven 50 to a

million that, that opens up a whole
different can of worms about, you know,

management and all that good stuff.

So, but no great question.

I'm gonna scroll down cuz we're gonna
start with some of the older questions.

Uh, folks have asked a
little earlier, so this is.

Scott.

Uh, Leham he said, what's your
advice about getting into video?

I don't know if it's, because what
we do today, we feel just normal,

but I'd like to start getting
some video content together.

I've seen Jazz's videos and short,
simple, short, and simple and do the job.

So what would be your, maybe your
recommendation to somebody to get started?

Pete Matheson: I would ask
the question back to you.

Cause I, I think your video
journey started later than mine.

Um, so, and, and yours has obviously gone
down a different road to mine as well.

Um, which I actually a lot
more value in nowadays.

So yeah.

I'd ask question back to you and
just see what's what, what approach

did you take and what's worked
and what's not worked for you.

And I guess the, the key question of how
quickly did it work, which is I'm sure is

the one that everyone's wanting to know.

Andrew Moon: I think now with the
tools that we have now that weren't

there, I started my live streaming
journey on April 1st, April fool's

day, 2022 weeks after the pandemic.

So I'm like, you couldn't have
got a, you know, a worse time

to really start something new.

But I, I started it.

I was like, I just wanna
figure out how to do this.

So one, it was a challenge for me to
figure it out, gave me something to

do, but the tools that we have make
this so much easier, like, I, it was

harder to try to figure things out
and it was harder to get the tools

to work together and talk together.

But yeah, I think you and I, when
we first did our first interview

together, I think I had an iPhone
clamped to my monitor in front of me.

And I was using my iPhone camera
as my webcam, and I figured

Pete Matheson: is now an apple
feature that they sell on it's like

they've actually developed it now.

Andrew Moon: That was
hilarious when I saw that too.

I like the top down.

Like I, I like being, so anyway, we
could digress on a whole, but my whole

point of getting into video was I
just wanted to tell my story of what I

went through as an entrepreneur during
the last downturn in the economy.

Uh, which for me, the
biggest one was 2008.

I had a four year old child at
home with a four year old MSP.

Yeah.

I started my business the year my son
was born, but that's all I wanted to

do was provide structure and just get a
conversation going with people online.

I really wasn't expecting
anything to come of it.

Um, but it was amazing
what did come of it.

One, I got better at using the tools.

I didn't try to figure everything
out all in, in the beginning.

Um, But now you have very simple things.

Like restream like, restream, you
could go live, do everything that I

was doing nuts and putting a bunch
of things together now, quite simply.

Um, but I went live with that intent that
that's all I was gonna do is just get on

there and, you know, make my own, I has to
look beautiful thing with it is you can do

whatever you want on there, but it, but it
resonated that that time of entrepreneurs,

like everything shut down, people lost
half of their revenue in 48 hours.

And I just wanted to have a
conversation about, you know,

how do we support each other?

And it has blossomed into a worldwide
community and it, it is phenomenal.

You and I met because of my
live streams and Scott and I

met through my live streams.

And it is just an interesting thing.

There's two different ways with video.

And I think you had touched on that.

I do more of the live stream
like we're doing right now.

Pete is awesome at the, you know,
recorded content and, you know,

structure, storytelling that way.

Um, you've kind of done both.

What would you say the advantage
is for live streams versus recorded

and recorded versus live streams?

What would you say?

Maybe the

Pete Matheson: I think the key thing.

And you mentioned it already.

I think the key thing is community.

I think when you're doing live
streams, you are basically constantly

looking for engagement to build,
uh, like the following to get

people commenting and really having
that discussion back and forth.

Whereas with the videos, it's
more of a one way approach.

You're just kind of putting the
videos out there and you, you just

let them sit there and do whatever
they're doing with the algorithm,

whether them get picked up and viewed.

But, um, there, there there's, I
guess there's, there's good things to

both and good reasons for doing both.

Um, I, I think specific to Scott's
question about like getting

started and I said this exact
same thing to JS, uh, is just.

I don't care what you do when you first
start doing video, because the first, like

the first six to 12 months won't matter.

The main thing is that
you're doing the video.

So whether you are doing, you know,
shorts, whether, I mean, whether Jess

is doing tos for God's sake, like
whether you, if you can do tos and

just hold a phone up and say something
about it or something related that your

clients will find, you know, passion
in as well, then, then that's great.

And yeah, that's very, um, I say it's a
lower barrier to an entry because there's

less, um, less, less production quality.

Cause I've got this like stuff
that you have to worry about.

The fact that you just get comfortable on
video is the thing that will get you over

that bump that then starts doing video.

And it's kind of the way that, you
know, I, I fell into my journey

of, okay, well now I'm doing that.

Let's look at doing it a bit better now.

And like, now I'm gonna
start scripting my videos.

Now I've got lights and sound
and like it, it just progresses.

And the way I always approach it is that.

Just, just fire off the lap,
uh, fire off the, the video.

Now I'm gonna focus on making the
next one better than the last one.

Sometimes that meant investing
in, in some more gear.

Sometimes it was just better storytelling,
better topics, better thumbnails, better

titles, like all those kind of things.

But the fact that someone can pick up a
phone and literally just record himself

and, um, you know, land some clients
or, or land some prospects a week later

just shows how powerful video can be.

And it's one of those things that I, I
was listening to a podcast this morning.

It is such a powerful thing,
such a powerful thing.

And, um, and I've talked about
it so many times, but literally

99% of people will not do it.

And that is the reason why
you should be doing it.

It's such a horrible thing to do video.

Like I hate my face.

I hate my voice.

I hate everything about me, but
literally 99% that people will not do it.

So why not be in that 1%?

Why did not push through the barrier
of, I hate myself to making the videos.

And you will instantly like elevate
yourself above the rest of the noise.

Um, I've seen it happen time and time
again, when people start doing video

on LinkedIn, they get engagement,
people start comments and they're

like, oh, it's so nice to see.

You've got a real face.

You're not just like this
texting that appears on LinkedIn.

They, they get to know your personality.

They get to learn a little bit about
you cuz in each little one you'll

just share E even if you're not
sharing like, like personal things in

the life, they just get to see your
personality from like the way you speak.

Uh, there are certain things, you know,
just, just body language, those kind

of things that come across in video.

So, um, if that's not my sales
pitch, why you should do video?

Uh, I, I dunno what it is.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

I mean, hopefully that helps Scott.

I mean, I that's, what, whatever
you're comfortable with.

Like for me, I obsess too much.

That's why I'll be honest with you.

That's why I don't do more recorded
content because when I've, when I, when

I know in my mind, I've got more than
one take, I'll try to make it perfect.

And then I don't get anything out.

And I think that that for me, was
allowed me to kick that barrier

down, doing live streams because I.

You've only got one
take this thing's live.

And I didn't obsess over the necessarily
the quality in the beginning, you know,

I went live with a blue Yeti microphone
and a C nine 20, uh, webcam, which I

elevated to my phone, just clipping,
you know, that on using it as a webcam.

So whatever you're, you
are more comfortable with.

And that was, that is the thing
with livestream too, is people have

a lower expectation of it's live.

They know things are gonna go wrong
and it's not gonna be perfect.

And that, I think that's the thing
that makes it unique is it's more

raw and people, I think what to
touch on your point, Pete is that's

what endears people to you faster
when they see, you know, this isn't

necessarily a Polish scripted video.

And, and when we did testimonials.

When I ran my MSP, the ones that were
raw, me just getting out my phone

and having somebody tell me what they
just told me and getting it on video.

Those did better than the ones
where we spent $5,000 making a,

you know, a host of polished,
ready to, you know, testimonials.

And it's funny because I had
people tell me that they actually

believe the ones that are more raw
than they do the polished ones.

I don't know why.

And it's just human nature.

And I, and I had attorneys tell me that
they're like, just for some reason,

when you, when it's raw and you're
just recording somebody's reaction

to something, whether it's, you know,
live or recorded, people trust that.

And I think that was

Pete Matheson: is the
biggest like fallacy.

I, I constantly see, I,
I wanna get into video.

I've got like five grand.

What do I do?

And the only thing they will do is
spend that five grand on one big

video that's like, and about us
or some, some big marketing thing.

That's gonna go on the homepage.

Andrew Moon: Yep,

Pete Matheson: Don't don't,
don't just, don't do that.

Just take that five grand or whatever,
you know, thousand whatever it is, you can

do so much with that by making lots more.

Micro content, regular pieces, you
know, spend a grand a month and that's

five months worth of video content.

You can hire a video editor, you
can do a marketing apprentice.

You, you can do so much more than
just give that five grand to somebody

else to make something that looks like
makes you feel very good, cuz it will.

Of course you're spending
in five grand or something.

It's gonna make the company look very
good, but it's one piece of content it's

gonna be out date really, really quickly.

You know, your staff
members are gonna change.

The environment's gonna
change your offices.

You might move offices,
everything changes.

So why not spend that same amount
of money on some smaller little

bits, you know, buy a better camera
with, you know, 500 pounds of that.

And you've still got four and a half
grand left buy a microphone, but

there there's just so much more.

And I see it time and time again.

And it's such a difficult, um,
sell, I guess, so to speak.

So when I, when I was running, um,
the continuity video marketing,

when we were speaking to MSPs.

They are only interested in, I've got five
grand, I'm gonna spend it on one video and

you try and explain to them that actually
you get much, much better results by doing

regular kind of drip fed smaller things.

They, they just don't understand it.

And I see the exact same things even today
in my, my kind of job now of like this

YouTube channel when talking to brands
and they're like, we've got a budget.

We wanna do a video with you.

Okay.

They wanna do one video and they have all
their expectations set as that video is

gonna, you know, sell, sell my product.

It, it doesn't actually, what does sell
product is smaller mentions drip fed

in amongst other videos, um, you know,
kind of, they call them integration.

So like a 32nd ad, essentially
that you add into other videos.

That same amount of money spread across
those videos perform so much better.

So it's just, it's it
is complete false fall.

Like don't take money and do video
by just spending it all on one video.

It won't perform.

You'll you'll feel good about yourself
and you'll think it's done doing well.

Um, and your, your clients will
say, oh yeah, watch your videos.

Great video, but it won't
actually do anything.

The smaller content will work
much better and it'll be probably

a dove site cheaper as well.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

And this Scott and I talked about this
a couple weeks ago, when we talked

about live streaming and it, it took
me a year doing these live streams

almost every week before I realized
that, Hey, I can, I can actually

slice these up into smaller videos.

I'm like, why don't I do that?

So like last June I started doing that.

I would take, say an hour long webinar
that you you're doing, or an hour web

live stream talking about anything.

I was like, how many, two minute
videos, how many 32nd videos can

you make out of that one piece of
content out of that one effort?

And it's I was like, okay,
then it started dawning on me.

I'm like, I can do so
many things with this.

So I started doing that.

We do a live stream, you know, on
Wednesday and then Thursday and Friday,

I would go about slicing up those
videos and then hand it off to an editor

and to finish up and make small clips
that I could then put on LinkedIn.

I could then put on my YouTube channel now
as YouTube shorts, it's the same video.

And it only took me one effort.

So like, if you all know you
did was one of those a month,

one, one hour live stream.

And I wanted to, I'm gonna, I can't
wait to talk to Scott next week,

cuz I think he's got a two hour live
stream plan for Thursday, but he's

excited about that because he's like,
I can, I'm going to be able to make

so much micro content out of this.

That leads back to the original
and I'm like, that's exactly

what you want it that way.

You're not recreating the
wheel every single month.

And I've actually had my social
channels on autopilot since December.

And it is all my content.

I have not reposted pretty
much anything from anyone else.

And it's all that micro content from
my podcast, cuz I started doing the

same thing with my podcast and I
started doing the same thing with

all of our live streams, going
back into some of those older ones,

slicing those up into smaller bits.

And now I have an asset library
of 200 plus videos off of

work that I've already done.

And that's 200 and some videos that were
in social posts that I can just keep

turning out there month after month.

Cuz not everybody's gonna
see it the first time out.

And that's the thing
with the live streams.

Nobody, a few people will
turn up live, but I get so

many of the people will watch.

Six months from now and message me
from, because I keep these up on my

YouTube channel and it's awesome.

Um, but yeah, Scott said, he's just,
he is thinking I'm worried about it

being perfect and polished, but just
cranking on it and giving some value

and getting in front of our ideal
client and get her name out there.

So yes, that's exactly what you want.

I'm a

Pete Matheson: I think with the, the
whole perfection thing is one thing

that holds a lot of people back, but
hon honestly, there is no quick and

easy answer for it is you just need
to kind of, when you're running a

business, like you can have to assume
that not everything's gonna be perfect.

Just do it move on.

And again, just, I always say like
post a video, focus on the next video,

keep doing that for like however long.

And if you really still think that
first video sucked, then go all the

way back to that first video and just
remake it again, like six months later.

Cause you'll have learned by going
through that process, you won't learn.

If you never post that first video, cuz
you'll get stuck on the first video.

So yeah, just uh, yeah, get over
the perfectionism and just, just

get on with things basically.

So I know that's a, a
bit of a silly thing.

Just like just stop being silly.

Just, just post the

Andrew Moon: James Kemp said
the same thing on LinkedIn.

He said, I bought a thousand dollars
worth of video kit cuz I was thinking

I had to be pro, but actually just
got started with just my iPhone

because I don't have to edit.

I just shoot and post bam.

That is what you want.

07 Sound Effects: yo yo yo yo pop, pop.

Andrew Moon: That's what you want.

Don't overthink it.

Don't overthink it.

All right.

Let's go

Pete Matheson: video.

I need to get my road back out again.

I need to have some sound effects.

Andrew Moon: I'm having so much fun.

I can't wait to get the
new broadcaster pro too.

That's on my, my next purchase list.

But anyway, maybe we can do a well,
a future live stream about that.

We can just geek out on what
we can do with the road caster.

So.

All right, so we got
a couple more in here.

Um, Trenton, ask a question here.

He said explainer, vids.

How do you get started?

Are they useful and necessary?

As some are suggesting.

Uh, Trent, if you could let me
know, like what, what would your

topic be for those explainer videos?

Um, that way cut Pete and
I can kind of give you some

customized recommendations there.

I, I personally like explainer videos
because there's so much that we take

for granted as tech folks, things that
we just, you know, know to do that.

I remember when you would go
show a client on site, how to do

something they're like, holy crap.

I never knew it could do that.

Give me, for instance, I remember
one of the first instances I had,

there was a associate director.

I was in her office.

I forget what I was even
doing in her office.

And I just happened to look over and
noticed what she was doing in outlook.

She had an Excel spreadsheet opened
with all of her contacts and she was

copying and pasting people's email
addresses from her Excel spreadsheet into

outlook so that she could send messages.

Something, we would take for granted that
people would just know how to do that.

So I sat down and showed her how
to take those contacts, import 'em

into outlook, and she never had to
maintain that spreadsheet ever again.

And it was just light bulb moment.

She's like, I never knew it could do that.

So what things do you regularly see
take your help desk is such a treasure

trove of explainer videos and just
easy content, in my opinion, uh, of, of

things that you could create content out
of, um, how to do an email signature.

I mean, that seems very simple to us, but
how do you make, you know, doing an email

signature that is uniform across your
company, do a two minute video on that.

Doesn't have to be in depth.

Like, just show me how to do that.

What tools are available so
that I can get a customized.

Outlook signature for all
my CU all my employees.

So that everybody's
signature looks the same.

I mean, what tools did you use for that?

Like, like exchange, uh,
signatures management.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, your guys are all using
tools that we take for granted.

And we just take for granted that
people know what the heck they are.

Take two minutes and show something,
like, take your help desk, look at

your tickets, find something that
you can create a two minute video on

and put it on your YouTube channel.

So, you know, take out your phone.

You screen share.

There's so many the tools in the
wealth of being able to do this.

Now, like I said, versus even
two years ago is so much easier.

I mean, like every single thing that
I download now has some sort of screen

capture ability, like descript that
I use for transcriptions has a screen

capture ability for me to be able to
video myself while it's transcribing.

so I actually do my whole podcast
ind script, and I just talk it out.

I drag and drop intro outro,
boom, done podcast is done.

So there's, even if that's all it is, it's
just small snippets of things like that.

And again, I'm just using one, for
instance, Camtasia new updated Camtasia

has a bunch of new features in it.

So whatever you're comfortable
using, just use it and get started.

But I think explainer videos where
they see you will go further than

maybe a cartoon explainer video.

That's just my personal opinion.

Like I, I would probably watch,
you know, somebody on camera show

me something from their phone or
their desktop, how to do something

with tools that I'm already using.

And again, I guarantee you there's
things inside of Microsoft teams.

There's things inside of the
tools they're already using

that people don't know about.

So my, you

Pete Matheson: think, uh, Tom,
Tom Lawrence is obviously, I guess

the king of explainer videos from
like a technical perspective.

And, um, it it's a much longer burner in
terms of bringing in business because,

uh, bringing in large amounts of business.

So for him, I know that's brought him in
a lot of business with some very, very

big, uh, clients, because where he is
making tons of videos about storage, uh,

rate arrays and those kind of things,
he gets some clients approach him

saying, I need this massive rate array.

Can you do it for me?

Cuz you seem to be the
only one that can do it.

There's probably a lot of other
people out there that can do it.

Tom's like the only one out
there making videos about it.

So of course, when people search
for it, he's the one that comes up.

So yeah, if you can kind of make explainer
videos, um, if you can make, um, and

that's why he's separated his like
business channel, there's a separate one

called business technicalities because
there's a different audience for each.

Um, but yeah, ex explain the
video is a, a great way to get

started and, uh, agree with Andrew.

Look at your help desk.

Just it's full of a treasure trove of
problems that you can answer via video.

And once you've answered it via
video, once you can just use the

video again and again, and again,

Andrew Moon: Yep.

Rob said, said people who use their
mouse to move between fields on a form,

showing them how to use the tab key.

I mean, again, things that we would think
is dead simple, but think about that.

If everything is in a form now how
much time could you save your clients

right now, teaching them that.

Pete Matheson: Yeah.

Andrew Moon: And I guarantee you probably,
at least 50% of them don't know that.

So, I mean, you think about what
you'd save them just in time in a day.

So a again, just super,
super easy, uh, things to do.

So Alex is digging, digging our sound fix.

So we'll give 'em a cow bill.

All right.

Let's dig back into some of these

Pete Matheson: we ask
you some more questions.

We've got about five, 10 minutes left.

So let's, uh, Tramble last you

Andrew Moon: Let's see here,
start at the bottom here.

So, uh, Jeremy had a couple of them, so he
said I'm, I'm new to business development.

Uh, I read Carl P Chuck's book, which
really helped 25 years of individual

contracts to manage any top tips, 250
clients on and just 80 on a form of

contract, which are all different, man.

That could be a, that could be a
whole show right there, but simple.

Pete Matheson: um, let me just find that.

Andrew Moon: You want me
to put that back up there?

Pete Matheson: mind bringing that
one back up on the screen again?

Sorry that, yeah, if that's right.

So I was just reading his
second one at the same time.

Uh, okay, cool.

Uh, any tips?

His, his follow up question is
actually more of a question I think

is worth, uh, also trying to target
new clients I had through legal.

Yeah, that's one.

I'm also trying to target new clients
I had through legal and accountancy.

Uh, sorry.

I, I thought legal accountancy would
be the best area, particularly with

cyber insurance, pushing clients towards
MSPs, finding it really hard to get in

front of new clients in these sectors.

Any tips?

Yes.

A few tips.

Um, one network where they network, if
there's trade shows certainly here in

the UK, there's like the, um, the, the.

Law show, I dunno what they're called,
cause I don't go to them, but there,

there are shows where like the law society
will literally just tell everyone the

latest law things that are happening and
they'll have, uh, exhibition exhibitions.

If I can say the words, uh, and you
can just sit there with a stand and

people can come up and talk to you.

You're probably gonna be the only it
company there because that's not the

kind of place that it companies hang
out normally same with the accountancy.

There's the, the zero road show that's
normally here in the UK every single year.

And I'm sure they tour
the tour, the world.

So that, that's kinda one thing.

Just look for, basically look
where they're hanging out.

What network groups do they go to?

What events do they go to?

Just make sure you're there.

Um, social media, of course, you
know, you can connect with all

of the people in the local area.

Uh, Andrew's got a fantastic
LinkedIn, which I'm sure we'll

talk about in the moment, uh, about
connecting with them on there.

Um, in terms of, uh, other reach, just
think about, um, Le lead generation,

um, things that they would value.

Um, so if you're trying to create
something that's, um, you know, gonna

attract them, what do they find.

Um, attractive to them.

Like what's gonna interest them to
click, to download whatever it is, free

thing that you've, you've got for them.

You need to entice them
in there with something.

And then there was one more thing.

Did I remember one more thing?

Um, no, I'm gonna hand over to
Andrew whilst I remember that

Andrew Moon: Now I think that is perfect.

You know, he he's targeting legal.

That was my bread and butter was
legal and property management.

So I'll tell you how to get into legal.

What worked for me?

Um, Jeremy, let me know what
part of the country, what

part of the world you're into.

Um, cuz I might be able to.

Kind of key you in, on something
that might be regional.

What I looked for is what
associations did they belong to?

What memberships did those attorneys have?

Where are they paying money to hang out?

Pete Matheson: Belfast.

He's he's he's Irish.

Andrew Moon: Gotcha.

So as Pete mentioned, there are
associations that attorneys belong to.

Like there was one that was regional,
um, where I based in Columbus, Ohio.

So there was an association based
in Columbus, Ohio for attorneys.

Then there was a state based
organization for attorneys.

And then there are also national
associations for attorneys go

after the member group, the member
that actually where the, the

membership associations themselves.

And I'll tell you, the reason being
is, is I figured that out from the

property management, the property
management company that we signed on.

all of their members became
clients because we were servicing

and providing something that the
association needed, which was content.

That's what they need the most.

They need content to keep relevant
content in front of their members.

So that those members renew, I
mean, all of us are part of tech

tribe and other memberships because
we're getting something of value.

We're getting content.

So that's what those associations
are starving for is content.

So if you can give them content around
cyber insurance, cyber security, those

types of things, and easiest way to
do that, telling you easiest way to do

that is find out the associations and
then start sending connection request.

And I give you a whole scripts.

If you're part of tech tribe on how to
do that, connect with them on LinkedIn,

start conversations with them through
LinkedIn, and then just see what content

they're they are in need of that.

Is it cyber or whatever you're doing VO.

What other content can you provide?

And if it behooves you go ahead, go, go.

Pete Matheson: I've got,
I've got two things.

So I just, I, I remembered the
one and I remember the extra one

as well, which links into that.

So when you're kind of reaching out
to people, it's a bit out there,

but if you were to start a podcast,
Slash live stream that we're doing,

but you could just do a podcast.

It's a great way to just get in.

People's get your foot in the doors.

You're not trying to sell to them.

You're just saying, Hey, would
you like to hop on a podcast?

We'll just chat about
you about your business.

Learn a bit more about you, which
is, Hey, great for you, cuz you're

learning a lot more about them.

Um, so that was the first one.

And then secondly was to, and I
don't always agree with it, but

the, the dark web monitoring service
where you can see if they've got

any hacked emails, if they've leaked
any passwords to the internet.

Um, I've seen a few people where
they will just, um, you know, search

for all the local solicitors and
they will dark web search them.

So I'll find out if they've got any
hacked or leaked emails and passwords and

they'll contact them directly and say,
Hey, we've, we've done a search on you.

We've found these things have
leaked onto the internet.

Very, very recently.

We'd love to have a chat with
you about your cyber security.

Just like another way in through the.

Andrew Moon: Yep.

No, I love that.

I mean, because those things like live
video and podcasting are so much easier

now than what it was, you know, when I
got started in 2004, I mean, think about

how much market research that you could do
interviewing an attorney on your podcast.

What challenges are you facing as an
attorney in the current job market?

What does that tell you about the
challenges that they face now?

Guess what I can do.

I can now change my marketing to
something that is a number one or

number two, problem for attorneys.

And if I'm able to solve that
with the things that I provide,

then it's a win-win for everybody.

So you gotta kind of think, you
know, a little bit more long

term as, as Pete mentioned.

So Jeremy said, yep.

Appreciate that.

But, yeah.

So let's go back a couple
more questions, I guess.

I see one more that I didn't get to.

And this is, um, mark, mark, hope ask.

Should MSPs need to be ISO 27,001.

And what would be the
rough costing of this?

I have no idea this.

Pete Matheson: That's fine.

So from my perspective, we, we
were looking into ISO 27,001.

Um, we, we went to look at it because
one of our clients required it.

So that's, that's kind of what put
us on the path of, of needing that.

I think it's a nice to have.

It just depends where in the
stage of the MSP, uh, you are.

So I, I, I dunno if you know Andrew,
so ISO 20,000, 27,001 is just

basically set of standards to make
sure you are documenting things.

Everything's got process.

And, you know, you are checking
things like, uh, when you deliver

something, there's a delivery note
that get signed and it's just this

whole kind of system, the system that
you should be doing already, I guess.

So it's a great thing to remind you that
you should be doing everything, but it's

quite a costly process to go through.

Um, I dunno off top of my head,
cause we started looking into it.

We never did it ourselves,
but we were going through it.

Have a chat with Adam, uh, Adam
on LinkedIn, Adam VO, Vos VAs.

He's he's a leads guy.

I, I never know how to say his surname.

Let me just find his,
uh, his LinkedIn profile.

And I'll that across.

Maybe we'll ask to do that.

Do you wanna move on to
the, uh, the next question,

Andrew Moon: So at Alex said the
same thing, kind of in the same

vein, the ISO 9,001, which I
think is over here in the states.

Um, and then Robert said, yep.

Cyber essentials.

Yeah.

Robert's recommendation is cyber
MSP should be cyber essentials

plus over ISO certification.

Pete Matheson: Yeah, I, I,
I think I'd agree with that.

Um, unless the supplier or the clients
you're trying to work with, you know,

some government level organizations, um,
look, to be honest, most organizations

at those level will probably require
both of those nowadays the ISO and

the, uh, cyber cyber central plus.

Andrew Moon: Yep.

James Kemp.

Thank you for this.

He said, I just recently got a quote
for this $5,000 setup and $3,000 award.

So that'll kind of give you,
you know, what you're looking

as far as costing is concerned.

And I'm gonna go ahead and
copy and paste Adam's uh,

Pete Matheson: hopefully he doesn't mind,
but I'm sure he'll, uh, he'll, he's posted

a few videos about it that he's, uh,
they recently got the certification or

the accreditation, whatever you call it.

So yeah, he, he definitely
understands the, the cost behind it.

Andrew Moon: yeah, so he's
Scott says same thing, a hundred

percent agree that over I ISO.

So, uh, let's see here.

Make sure if you let me know
if I missed your question.

I don't.

I tried to, uh, favor the,
all of the questions and I

think that was the last one.

If I'm not mistaken,

Pete Matheson: There's there's one
here that I've got, which is from

job tech, which is all my business
has been coming from referrals, which

has kept me very busy and profitable.

Would you recommend staying on this
path or going out and being a natural

salesperson, steady growth or rapid?

Um, I, I like the, and this, this
is kind of what got me onto the

whole video marketing essentially.

I liked the slow and silly approach
of, um, growth through referrals.

And you can kind of just
get away with doing that.

If you focus on doing a good service
and delivering a good job, and then

trying to encourage the referrals,
come through, talk to your clients,

see if they can recommend you.

You can do that and you
can do it very, very well.

So if it's working for you, keep doing
it, the thing that brought me onto

video marketing and other marketing
stuff in general, We, what, if we

could do a little bit better now it
was always, and that's always in the

back of my mind, like we could do a
little bit better than we are doing.

So I just thought, Hey, if we can just,
if we can figure out that marketing

thing, then we can just, I I'm not, I
don't, I don't wanna explode the growth.

You know, I don't wanna start taking
on staff faster than we can kind of

manage them, but, um, we could take
on more clients and more staff faster.

Um, if we had the leads coming
in, if we had, you know, if we

had the business coming through.

So I, I think realistically it's probably
a, a good of, a bit of an in between,

of course, you know, the referrals
are gonna keep coming through as long

as you're doing a good job and always
focus on doing a good job, cuz you

sell yourself basically through that.

But there's no reason why you
couldn't just start putting the

feelers out there and doing.

A little bit of lead journey know
doing some, um, lead magnets.

Like we were talking about a few
weeks back with the top 10 reasons

to do this, whatever it is, the
just things that might attract them.

Um, like Andrew was saying earlier, the
cyber security things might be really

attractive to, to legal firms, accounty
firms as well, but, um, just, just

start doubling your feet in something
and just seeing where it takes you.

Um, I'm a big fan of with marketing.

I, I call 'em like marketing
pillars, just focus on one thing for

one month, get it implemented and
then kind of keep it ticking over.

And then the next month you
move on to something else and

start doing something else.

So it might be maybe you do Google
ads words in month, one month,

then you do video in month two.

Then you do podcast in month three,
you know, whatever they might be, but

you spend a month getting them going.

And then you just need a little bit of
time each month just kind of tweaking

them and, and keeping them going that
that's kind of quite a nice, um, non

stressful, or at least low stress
way of, of, of doing marketing whilst

you're also doing the, the, the, you
know, the referral growth as well.

Andrew Moon: Now that's a great question.

And it's, it's one that I typically see
when people need to get marketing going

because the referrals have dried up.

Now you're starting from zero.

It's gonna take you three to six months
before you start seeing any results.

So you gotta remember that is once
the referrals dry up, then what

you want to be ahead of that game.

Not necessarily, like you said, we
don't, we're not looking for maybe

rapid growth, but you gotta have
some something in the pipeline.

Um, so you want to tune in next week,
by the way, for that follow up, Pete

are gonna be talking about all to how
to prepare for the upcoming recession.

Um, and yes, it is coming.

This is not gloom and doom.

We're just gonna give you some tips
and tricks on what we would do.

I've lived through several
running businesses.

So I've got some battle scars
that I can share with you.

Um, so definitely tune
into that next week.

So, uh, one last thing here where mark
said does CE or CE plus still include

free cyber insurance coverage was
speaking to a client yesterday, as I

thought it used to be, but not sure
since the changes, uh, let's see if any,

someone's answer to that question for him.

I thought, um, Actually, uh, yep.

That would be who answered that question

Pete Matheson: Yeah.

The, see, I think that's, uh,
that's chairs that's provided back.

Yeah.

So cyber centrals does, I think cyber
centrals plus doesn't because that's

such a big, wider, much larger business.

It depends on the risks and
everything, but CE covers a, a

basic level of, of insurance,
uh, even on the, the new changes.

Andrew Moon: Yep.

Scott said, yes, it does.

So that's good.

Yep.

And there's also that
link in the chat too.

Uh, James posted direct
link to that information.

So

Pete Matheson: ISME.

So that's like the UK governing body
for the, uh, Cy centrals over here.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

What's great about it too, is like
there's over here in the states, there's

C MMC, which is the certification
specifically around manufacturing,

but there's been MSPs that have
gone through that certification.

So it kind of puts you in an elite
realm that those, those clients who

need that they only have a handful
of people that they can even.

Contact.

So it does create a different,
uh, lead generation pool, uh, when

you've got the certifications.

Nobody else does.

So, yep.

And Scott said, yep.

We put all of our clients
through it, but it's a small

amount of coverage up to 10 K.

Um, so that's good.

And mark said, yes.

Thanks guys.

Did we get all the questions?

I wanna make sure we didn't miss any, so,

Pete Matheson: think that's a lot,
I've had a scan through and I can't

see any others that we've missed.

Um, but that's probably a
good time to, uh, call it.

I think.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, so guys,
I'm gonna put this in here too.

Um, I'm gonna put this
in the chat as well.

Um, we will be streaming over on
our new home on YouTube because we

had to wait 24 hours before we could
go live on our new YouTube channel.

Um, so I'm.

I think we can go live
in an hour and a half.

So Pete, you wanna jump
on in an hour and a half?

Um, no, just kidding.

I'm gonna go ahead and
put that in the comments.

So please like, and subscribe
our new YouTube channel.

Um, but we're gonna be posting out
all to our personal channels as well

as our new YouTube channel, hopefully
with Scott back next week as well.

So

Pete Matheson: And I think the, from
the podcast perspective, I believe we

are, um, you can still stay subscribed
if you're not ready to the, um,

behind the geeks podcast, you'll just
notice in your podcast app or player

that it's gonna change the name.

So we are kind of, we we're continuing,
this is still the same podcast.

Um, it's just, we've had a
slight change of who's in it.

And, uh, we're changing the name
just to separate it from the, uh, the

tribe side of things a little bit as
well as where, um, obviously Nigel's

not got the time being that it's
like 7:00 PM his time at the moment.

Andrew Moon: yeah, he's snack.

He he's eating dinner time for him, so.

All right guys, thank you so
much for all of those who showed

up live, uh, to our inaugural.

Not an MSP show.

Um, but yeah, if you've got future
questions for us or topics that you

would like us to cover on future live
streams, please let us know, reach out

to us, connect with us on LinkedIn.

So check down in the description,
both on YouTube and LinkedIn

connect to Pete, Scott and myself.

Uh, we'd be happy to share any battle
stories that we have and tips and tricks

that we've learned over the years.

But all right, guys, that wraps us for
today, we will see you, uh, hopefully, uh,

next Wednesday is what we're gonna try.

Wednesdays 11:00 AM Eastern time, and
it's coming up on 5:00 PM for you.

So it'd be four.

O'clock your time?

Correct.

Awesome.

Excellent guys.

We will see you next week.

Have a great week and be safe out there.