The NOT an MSP Show

Andrew Moon: Hey, we're in Sync All
right, got lots of joining us today.

So we got John tuning in from
Westway it Commercial networks

from the uk See lots from uk.

So Pati, uh, let us know
where you're tuning in from.

Simon is from UK

Pete Matheson: That's

Andrew Moon: it rock stars.

So looks like we're all over the place.

We got some LinkedIn, some
YouTube, so that's awesome.

Richard Tubb: Scott's from
the UK is from Scotland.

Well, it's still the UK at
the time of recording, so.

Scott Riley: If Nicholas Studson
has her way, Richard Will

Andrew Moon: awesome.

We are that time of year.

Welcome to the not an MSP show.

I think this is like episode
37, something like that.

So,

Scott Riley: sounds

Andrew Moon: are, The business
planning time of year, the unsexy part

of running a business, if you will.

Uh, so we thought we'd jump in.

If you're just joining us, say
what's up in the chat, tell us

where you're, uh, tuning in from.

And if you're listening to this on the
podcast replay, we wanna welcome you

and thank you for listening as well.

If you're on YouTube, be sure to
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channel so we can get that.

You know, Pete knows we gotta get that
YouTube algorithm thing going, so.

Pete Matheson: I, I normally say
that if your videos aren't getting,

uh, seen and views, then you
just need to make better videos.

So I dunno what that says
about this podcast, but

Andrew Moon: we'll see what happens.

See what happens.

So, all right, so let's, let's talk
about business planning and, and again,

the unsexy part of running an MSP and.

kind of the neglected part I think, of
running an msp, excuse me, running an msp.

Um, so who wants to kick us off first?

What, why do you think it's important?

And I think, you know, one, when we
neglected it, what's the difference

between business and hit hitting your
goals and not hitting your goals?

Pete Matheson: kick it off first because
it surprises me the number of people

that don't do any form of business
planning, which is like the main thing I

think that I wanted to get through with,
you know, this, this, this one today.

Because I mean, you're calling it unsexy,
but I actually find it's like, Almost

the sexiest part cuz that's the time
you get chance to like set your goals

and say what you wanna do next year.

And, and, and very importantly, how many
holidays do you want to have next year?

So like, the first thing I would do for
like business planning is just straight

away just go and put in your diary.

For at least one week long
holidays next year, like every

quarter booking a holiday.

Now you've got some time off,
like pre-booked and pre-planned

that you can like work around
and figure out how to do things.

And so of course, yeah, you know,
scheduling everything else in and

like figuring out how much revenue
and turnover and profit and how many

staff you wanna hire and, you know,
all those kind kind of cool things.

But, but realistically, it
kind of comes down to the, um,

the work life balance thing.

Mainly I find for most people,
because everyone's stressed, no

one has enough time in the day.

Everyone's wondering about, you know,
how am I gonna get through next year?

But honestly, if you can get
that time booked off, it,

it does really, really work.

Because if you pre-book things off,
you're gonna work towards them.

You're gonna make sure you've
got all the work done in time.

You know, Booker.

Pay deposits on a, I dunno, a Disneyland
triple or something like that.

Put, put something in the sand
where you cannot, like, change

it, you cannot delay it, move it,
cancel it, whatever it's gonna be.

And um, and even like, tell
all your friends about it.

Tell your family, so you've committed
that they're having a holiday, now

you've got the pressure that you need
to deliver until that holiday happens.

Um, but that's kinda the main, I
guess maybe just to start off us

off, because the, the sheer number
of people that don't plan whatsoever.

They're just kind of going, ah,
we'll just take it as it comes.

You know, if we get a
few customers, great.

But, um, you know, equally, if
you are planning, then you've

got something to work towards.

Like, if you're not planning, then
you are really just kind of aimlessly

wandering around, not really kind
of knowing what you're doing.

Great.

Yeah, we've got a new client in.

But if you have those goal sets, if
you know you want some time off, if

you know you wanna, I don't know,
buy a house or you need to, you know,

replace some of your fleet of cars.

If you've got car leases, you need some
money to be able to afford that stuff.

Well now you can put in a.

Andrew Moon: and

Pete Matheson: and scale that right
back to, okay, well how many clients

do I need to get, you know, every
single week or every single month?

How many prospects do I need to speak to?

How many meetings do I need to book?

How many quotes do I need to quote?

Just kind of running it all the way
back through something that's more

digestible than just, oh, well, we
need to generate another a hundred

grand revenue yet next year, which just
sounds unfathomable to some people.

If you can scale it right back to small
bite size trunks, then it's way, way

more, uh, more doable, more achiev.

Andrew Moon: for sure.

I'm glad you threw that life,
work life balance in first.

Yep.

Richard Tubb: Yeah, I was just saying,
Pete, in the, uh, the chat, everybody

says work life balance, don't they?

And I was taught years ago by, uh, a
great friend of, mentor of mine, Arlan

Sorenson, he said, Life work balance,
because life always comes first.

And I really like what you're
saying about the planning.

I think most people when it
comes to business planning,

they think that it's that thing.

You know, when we started off
in business and it's like, yeah,

you've gotta have a business plan,
and we envisaged some sort of.

Printed manual that you give to a bank
manager when you're applying for a loan,

a business loan or something like that.

That's not what business planning is.

You know, of course there's
financial elements to it, but for

me, business planning, we need
to change the naming around it.

Something could be, I dunno, if
you wanted to go woo woo, it could

be like dream planning or future
planning, whatever you wanna call it,

but it's all about what Pete says.

What worked for you over the past 12
months and what do you wanna do more of?

What didn't work for you and what you're
gonna do less of over the next 12 months?

Those are two big areas of planning
that I'd recommended people.

But the big part of this, of course,
is what life do you wanna have

over the next 12 months, you know?

So if you didn't take a holiday and.

I think all of us on this show will know,
and many people, uh, watching or listening

at home will know the MSP industry is
just terrible for people taking time

off and, uh, people taking time out.

And that is what's needed.

You need to take the time out,
uh, regularly, uh, to think, to

do some planning, to get some
idea of where you want to go.

Cuz how does the old phrase go
if you've got no destination in.

Uh, uh, any direction is,
uh, is gonna work for you.

You've gotta have a destination in mind,
and it doesn't have to be financial.

It could be life related, it could
be, you know, what you want to get

out because the business has gotta
serve you at the end of the day.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Amen to that.

Yeah.

What about you, Scott?

Scott Riley: I'm just, I'm, I'm
blown away that, uh, that we didn't

get the air horns, uh, Andrew.

Andrew Moon: you you
want some airhorns there?

We'll do some applause and some airhorns.

How's that?

Scott Riley: Oh, there it.

Oh, there it is.

Cause like, take a holiday
book that holiday in.

I love it.

I, I mean, I've just taken
that away as a piece of advice.

I, I love that because we, we keep
talking about doing that Disneyland

trip and we say, oh, you know, when the
kids get to the right age, when they

get to the right age, well guess what?

Next year they are the right age.

And so now's the time to book
in that Disneyland trip and it's

gonna cost an absolute fortune.

Um, and that needs planning for.

Like exactly as you said, Pete,
if we don't put the dates in the

diary, alls that'll happen is we'll
just keep working up and working up

going, oh, I need to take a week off.

I need to take two weeks off.

I'll, I'll, I'll get
there, I'll get there.

And then you never do because there's
always a client, there's always a

project, there's always an emergency.

Um, And I think, you know, just
pre-planning helps everybody

set their expectations.

Um, also it falls nicely
alongside my personal mission to

become useless in my business.

Because when you think about
taking time off, um, especially

in the, the agile MSP space, you
have to have everything lined up.

Like the systems and
processes have to work.

The business has to run without
you, so you can have that

week off or two weeks off.

Not exclusively, it doesn't have to be
completely independent, although that

is a great goal, but I think it forces
you to go, oh, well, if I need those

two weeks off, like that's payroll week.

Like how do, how do I
get the payroll through?

How do I get the bankings done?

Because I'm the only one who
has access to the bank account.

And these are great times to
challenge yourself and go, okay,

well again, you know, look at
that list of things that you do.

Does it have to be me?

Is there a way to automate it?

Is there someone who could do it
better than me or faster than me?

Keep looking at that list of things.

But your, your whole idea of, of taking
some time out, Pete really inspired me

then to also think we again as that,
you know, for me, I sit in that kind

of play a manager role and I always
look at it and go, well, how do we,

how do we find the funding for that?

How do I find the cash for that?

How do I take enough money out of
the business to pay me well enough?

To go and do the Disneyland trip.

Um, and we've talked about this before
Pete, and I'm sure you still talk

about it with MSP coaching clients
cuz it's where I, you know, I came

across the concept with you, which
is Mike T's profit first, right?

Where you take that money as
you go, you take your profit

every month and you do it.

I was gonna say religiously,
but that's not what I meant.

But you do it consistently.

You take that money as it comes in.

You don't keep telling yourself the story.

Well, when we get to the end
of the financial year and we do

all the sums, then I'll look at
taking some dividends to myself.

Because you don't, you've spent the
money by then you, you spent it on all

kinds of things over the last 12 months.

But if every month you set aside
some profit for yourself, some

money for yourself, and you pay
yourself every month, you will have

the cash for that Disneyland trip.

You'll have that cash for that home
renovation, that new car, whatever it is.

But if you keep telling yourself in the
same way, I'm gonna save up and take

a holiday, I'm gonna save up and pay
myself at some point, it doesn't happen.

So I like to think of this as
challenging yourself for the next year.

What have you, what
have you done this year?

Did you get that holiday?

Did you get paid?

Did you get that dividend?

You promise yourself?

Cuz if you didn't, now's the time
to stop putting those plans and

structures in place for next year.

And I can honestly say Mike Mcit and
Profit First is a great way if you are in.

Agile MSP player, a manager
role, it's definitely a great

resource for you to check out.

Andrew Moon: Yeah,

Pete Matheson: So there was, there
was something that we did that kind

of wraps around that whole piece with
like including the profit first and

the, the planning and the holidays.

And I think I've probably even
shown it to you, Scott before, but.

Um, every single year at the end of
the year, we sit down and we have this,

uh, like an a five, uh, not an a five,
sorry, like an a three sheet of paper

with the next 12 months written on it.

And you're literally plussing out what's
gonna happen over the next 12 months.

So you're gonna put in your four holidays.

So that's in there.

You're gonna put in how much those
holidays cost, so you've got the

costings behind them as well.

And sometimes maybe even when the
deposit's due versus the reigning balance,

you know exactly when the payments fall.

Um, you're gonna put in.

Starting with personal
things in there first.

So the personal things you wanna do, like
the, the doing up the house or the buying

a car, or you know, having another kid
or, you know, whatever you might need

for kind of your own personal world.

And then once you've got the personal
stuff in there, then you need to

figure out, well, how does the business
deliver what my personal life needs?

Because it's not meant
to be the other round.

It's not just growing the business
for the business sake, it's delivering

for your own personal goals.

You know, why are we all in this,
at the end of the day, is to try and

improve our own personal situations.

So then you scale that
back to the business.

Well, maybe the business needs to
generate, you know, x number of profit

now to deliver the personal staff, but
maybe to deliver the X number of profit

you now need to hire, you know, another
one or two members of staff, or maybe

the few more members of staff to be able
to retain, um, that amount of profit,

maybe to do the revenue, the turnover.

And so, like I said, you're
scaling it all the way back.

But in terms of hooking in the, the
profit first thing, literally at

the bottom of every single month.

So you've got like January, February,
March, like the whole kind, 12 months

at the bottom of every single month.

There was the profit first figure that
we were aiming to take out the business.

Um, and not just the
figure, but the percentage.

And so for anyone who's, you know, just
getting started with being able to like

withdraw profits from their business.

Start with 1%.

If you can withdraw, sorry.

If you can't withdraw 1% of your
revenue a month into your own bank

account as a profit, then there's
probably bigger issues at hand.

Um, most people can probably lose a
percent without really noticing it.

It's one of those things that you
probably spend it on something

else anyway, so you might as well
take it into bank first and then.

And at the bottom of those 12 months
just increased that percentage.

You know, I was trying to get up, up
towards like 10 or 15% in terms of

profit, but we were, I think we were
around, um, maybe five to 7% as we

were kind of working towards that.

But, you know, when you are doing
like a, you know, a million, I mean

million pound revenue, Going from like
5% to 6% is still quite a big chunk of

change, indifference every single month.

So just plan that in.

And as you're taking the more money,
that's obviously more money is

going into the pot to pay for the
holidays and scales up from there.

Um, and also just don't, don't
pretend you need to earn that

from like January next year.

Okay, we've got our
next 12 months planned.

Well now I need to like do
it all in January because we

need to pay for everything.

Make sure you're kind of progressively
increasing it each month, month.

Don't, don't expect miracles.

Just assume perhaps.

One new client in a month, you know,
something very attainable, very

achievable, something you can really go
back and get bike size chunks of, okay,

well how many prospects do we need to
speak to to get that one client a month?

Again, how many meetings, how many
uh, quotes do we need to send?

Typically, I find people are like a 50 50
closing rate, so once they're in through

the door, it's maybe a 50 50 chance.

So, you know, if you are gonna close
one of every two businesses, well you

need to speak to two businesses every.

Quote them, you know, is
that kind of, kind of simple

approach that works quite well.

But yeah, just literally get a piece
of paper, sketch out 12 months, sketch

out what it looks like personally, then
figure out what the business needs, needs

to deliver to do the personal stuff.

And that's kind of where you
start off from your, you know,

12 month plan and bring other
people in, bring in your partners.

Your wife's husbands bring in, you
know, senior management, uh, team in

the business as well, in terms of being
able to deliver the business vision

that there's tons of stuff you can do.

Um, I dunno if anyone here does it.

I have a feeling Scott
might, you might do it, but.

Do like an annual planning day or
a weekend or a retreat where you

just go and kind of you, you book
a nice hotel somewhere or a little

kind of holiday villa and you just
literally take your team away and go

plan the next 12 months completely
separated from the business, maybe?

Yes.

Even on a weekend.

So it's technically in your own
personal time, but it's a fun personal

time because you are like, I don't
know, at Center Parks or something.

You're having fun and you're
doing like weird activities in

between, but you can at least plan.

With your team the next 12 months.

Sorry, that was like a massively long
ran like I normally do, but yeah.

Andrew Moon: and I think
it's important too.

We touched on a couple things,
and Pete, you've seen it,

Richard, I know you've seen it.

Talking to MSPs is paying yourself enough.

I've helped a half dozen
companies transition out of the

MSP just because they've created
a business that's just a job.

They've created themselves a
$50,000 a year paycheck on a million

dollars in revenue, which is.

I mean, it's just, you're
not paying yourself enough.

Um, so I'm glad you guys touched on that
and started with that first as well.

Richard Tubb: Well, let's give
a shout for for Profit First.

You, you threw up the, the url.

I did an interview with Mike Malowitz,
the author of Profit First and,

um, surreal situation, by the way.

Uh, did the interview with him
in bed in, um, uh, Santa Barbara.

I'll say no more about
that, but there we go.

I'll leave that one.

I'll just throw that one out
there and leave it there.

But Mike is a former, um, MSP owner
himself, or ran an IT solution

provider, uh, back in the day, but
Profit First, you know, we love

giving book recommendations here.

Scott, uh, Pete, Andrew, and myself, and,
you know, we all read Avid readers, the

books, but Profit First was a real game
changing book for me because as you know,

Andrew said there earlier too often, MSP
owners are the last people to get paid

and it needs to be the other way around.

So if I was too, I'm not gonna say.

Dumb profit first down.

But if I was to really simplify it, for
those of us who from, uh, maybe from a

working class background like myself,
uh, who had maybe, uh, uh, uh, dad came

home, he'd got his paycheck, uh, and
what would happen is he'd give the money

to, uh, to my mom, and my mom would
put the, uh, uh, put some money in one.

For bills, she'd put another
envelope for Christmas savings,

she'd put another envelope for,
you know, whatever it might be.

So if anybody's familiar with that
envelope system where you literally get

the money in and you deviate up before
it can be spent on frivolous things, um,

that is essentially what Profit First is.

It's about saying Okay.

If you were to pay yourself first,
what transformational effect

would that have on the business?

Because trust me, everybody listening
to this, everybody watching this, if you

paid yourself first, it would transform
the way that you view your business,

from you being almost a slave to your
business, to the business being there.

To support your life.

And going back to what we said right at
the start, that Pete's so very well put.

You know, it's gotta be about the
business serving you and your life.

This is not work life balance.

This is life work balance.

So make sure you make it
about your life, first of all.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, Mike's a good guy.

I met Mike in 2012, um, in Nashville.

Um, it was funny cuz I saw him on stage.

And I thought I took a stab on, like, I
sent him a tweet during his presentation.

I'm like, Hey, you know, love to meet you.

I'll buy beers tonight.

Took me up on that offer.

We went to dinner that night, but he was
instrumental in helping me sell my msp.

Um,

Richard Tubb: Uh, cool.

Andrew Moon: so he's
got a lot of insights.

One of the first books that I
read from him was Pumpkin Plan.

Uh, so I think that too.

This time of year I scheduled that
regular pruning time in my business.

So we did this, you know, at minimum
every quarter we'd go back and

look, how do we prune the vine?

Basically, if you have, you guys
read the pumpkin plan, um, okay.

Ba Basically the whole concept of
that is just literal pumpkin farmers

that if you're going to grow a
prize winning pumpkin, that you,

you do all that you can to nurture.

And all of that, you know, the,
the stragglers, the, the dead

fruit, if you will, on the vine.

You make time to clip that
off and those are your bad

customers and we all have 'em.

Um, and I think that was one of the things
that I struggled with was getting rid of

customers, especially going into the new
year, especially going into, okay, I've

gotta have every dollar that we can get.

Unfortunately, every,
when we keep saying yes.

The parts of the vine that are
sucking the life out of the stuff

that's actually making us money.

The customers we like to deal with, the
customers that pay on time, the customers

we're actually delivering results for.

The longer we keep saying yes to the
bad fruit on the vine, the less time

we're gonna have, the less resources,
the less bandwidth we're gonna have

to our prize winning customers.

Uh, and I, again, this time
of year is super scary to do.

I think this is the time of year
to do this, especially going

into what's coming up next year.

I mean, the big R words coming back,
it's, it's being used more and more.

But I think having the customers and
taking care of the customers that you

want to deal business with, the ones that
you would like to clone and have more of,

you're gonna need all the bandwidth that
you can muster to take care of them in the

new year and to take care of them in ways.

it may not, uh, it may not
cost you a lot of money.

We've talked about that on
the last couple, couple weeks.

Doing those extra things, are there extra
things that you can do in the coming

new year to better take care of those
customers so that they stick around?

Um, what are you guys, what are
your thoughts on, you know, weeding

out bad customers and do you have
a, did you have a plan when you

ran your MSP and, uh, let's just,
you know, bounce that around a.

Pete Matheson: I dunno,
I'm, I'm in kind of two.

I've got two, two scenarios for
both sides of the argument, which

worked out quite well for us.

We had a client that was one of our
worst clients that were, you know, most

time consuming, stressful, difficult,
everything would take like forever to

get approved and we kind of outlived.

Our IT contacts at that
client, the IT contact changed.

We had a new IT contact step in and the
relationship improved, but we waited like

three or four years for that to happen.

Um, whereas so, so in that instance, it
worked well to obviously wait them out

versus the, you know, perhaps you could
argue the four years of waiting probably

cost more than it did to what we got
out of the, what happened after that.

But, um, on the flip side of
things, we've had a few situations.

We just knew the clients, you
know, they weren't that good.

They were wasting time.

They were taking up too much
of our own time and resources

on, on sill little things.

And in certainly two instances
I can recall very, very clearly.

Uh, three instances actually.

We just turned around and said,
look, let, we're obviously, it's

not obviously not working out.

Even though we were mid-contract,
we were just like, look, it's

obviously not working out.

Let's just save ourselves
all a bit of heart.

Take.

We'll help you find another IT provider.

We'll help you move away.

We're not gonna hold you to contract.

I appreciate you are probably
not getting the service that you

feel you, you deserve or expect.

I apologized and said, you
know, well, we obviously have

failed somewhere along the line.

So you're not kind of going
in really hard and fast and

saying, this is all your fault.

You're kind of going, well, look, there's
obviously a disconnect here, whether

it's you or us, like I, I don't know.

We've obviously failed at something
here, so let's just figure out

a situation where you get the IT
support that you are looking for.

So find, find 'em an alternative.

Help 'em find someone.

Or just at least just give them notice
and say, look, just take us either as much

time as you want, or at least, you know,
take a month or two, go find someone else.

And when you're ready to move, we'll
help you move we'll, we'll, you know,

hand over all the keys to the other
IT company, whatever it might be.

And, um, In every single
one of those situations.

It worked out to our favor.

Two of them took our advice, they
found other people, we handed them off.

We were absolutely delighted.

Our staff, even more so importantly,
were absolutely delighted cuz they

were just being a pain in the backside.

There was one client who didn't go, but
they actually came back straight away

and apologized and said, look, I'm so,
so sorry, like, we don't wanna leave.

You're the best company.

We've come across like what do we do?

How do we still work together?

Um, and when.

In the thick of it, running an
IT business, you don't hear it.

That kind of thing that often, um,
you just kinda expect 'em to be

like, yeah, your crap, aren't you?

Let's just go find someone else.

But they actually came back and said,
no, no, we don't wanna go anywhere.

Like how do we, how do we work together?

And, um, We basically came back
and said, look, we, we can work

together as long as we don't kind
of deal with this particular person.

Cuz they were one person
causing lots of the problems.

And they're like, cool, done.

Like, you're never gonna
hear from them again.

Can we go ahead?

And we're like, yep,
absolutely fine, keep going.

And we carried on that client for, well,
for a long, long time after like, until,

you know, after I sold the business.

Um, so that was a very, very good,
uh, even more so good result I felt,

cuz it's not very, uh, again, again,
it's not very often you get the

reassurance you're doing a good job.

And to basically kick a client
out the door and then be

desperately wanted to come back to.

That's really, really nice and
nicely reassuring to, to hear.

Um, but yeah, certainly in response,
response to the question, like both

sides of the kind of, uh, the argument.

Generally speaking, it's worth kicking
the, the clients, you know, you

always should really kick clients.

Um, but I have had, and I have seen
in a couple of situations, waiting,

waiting out can also be beneficial
as long as you can, like outlast or

out survive the problem in the client
that you've got the problems with.

But that's a, you know,
how long a piece of string.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, he gives,
Mike gives like four different

methodologies for pruning the vine.

Um, one of them was that Pete just,
you know, making them deprioritizing.

And just let them self
select to another provider.

So it doesn't always have to be
confrontational, but I think just

having that, having that regular part
of your process, again, you've talked

about the, the next 12 months, those
are the things you can write down.

Everybody's all jumped on board
with price increases this year.

Uh, everybody's all on board for that.

That's another one is just you.

Pruning out that vine so that you've
got better energy, uh, to spend with the

clients who do actually, uh, deserve it.

Uh, Richard Scott, you guys
have any thoughts on that?

I'm gonna welcome Sam.

Sam James said he just joining us
live for the first time this week.

Richard Tubb: Hey, Sam.

Andrew Moon: we appreciate you,
uh, joining us this week, Sam

and Tony Edwards is showing up.

He said interesting topic this week.

I've been.

For 2023 over the past couple weeks,
and I think I need to give profit

first a read over the festive season.

For sure.

For sure.

Welcome back to the show, Tony.

Appreciate that.

So anyway, Scott, Richard, you guys have
any other further thoughts on printing the

vine or just other We, we can move on to
the next topic if you guys want as well.

Um, but I think, you know, we
started off with a couple good ones.

Taking time, you know, taking the money
out for your business, taking the time

out for you, uh, and then prioritizing
who you wanna work with next year.

Scott Riley: Yeah, I think it's, it's
really important to keep looking at those

customers and I think it's, it's, it's so
important to not just look at the money

side of things, the revenue that's coming
in from those customers and the margin

that we're making, although that is a huge
part of something that we need to, to chat

about, you know, soon, today, I think is,
is making sure we are being profitable

with, you know, with those clients.

But I.

It's super important just from your.

Sanity, their mental health, you know,
their, their ability to put up with

the, these types of customers because,
and, and we talked about this last week,

there are, there are customers that
you know who they are and you know,

they take a lot of time, a lot of pain,
a lot of effort, and a lot of times

it's just around expectation setting.

Exactly as Pete said, it's about
having the conversation with them

to go, hey, This, this isn't how we
work, or this isn't what we agreed to.

Or maybe there's a disconnect between,
you know, expectation and, and the

service that we, we signed up for.

Can we, can we have a conversation?

Um, and a lot of times I'll see, you
know, when you chat to member piece,

they haven't had that conversation.

They're worried about having that
conversation because they don't

wanna upset the revenue that's coming
in, and they're nervous of having

a confrontation with the client.

That will mean, you know,
it's gotta come to a head.

But oftentimes you'll have that
conversation and it's so much nicer

than you thought, or it's so much,
so much easier than you thought.

You know, at the end of the day, you
built a relationship with these people

when you sold the service and you, you
know, you commissioned it and okay, maybe,

you know, people have changed over time.

But ultimately, you know, you
guys do a good job as an msp.

They are a client, they have MSP
needs that you definitely understand,

and there are things that you can
and can't do inside your packages

and your service levels that you,
you're, you know, you're very proud

of, you're very, you know, happy that
you can deliver in those timeframes.

It's an easy conversation to have to
just go, Hey, You know, you keep asking

for these types of things, like, oh,
it's in emergency, and we've got a,

you know, a massive emergency, brand
new start just came in like, yeah,

but you do this every three weeks.

You drop it on us, and then you
kick and you shout and you scream.

If you, you know, if we could find
a better way to work together, then

we can, we can stop this frustration
happening every three weeks, but as it.

You get stressed, our team gets
stressed and nobody's happy.

So how do we fix that?

And if you've genuinely had those
conversations a number of times

and it just isn't working, and this
could equally be about payments and

not getting payments on time because
you deserve to get paid on time.

In fact, you deserve to get paid in
advance for a lot of your services

if you've had the conversations
consistently and you just can't

seem to bring the client around.

Then I think that's where we
would be talking about pruning

and, and moving those clients on.

And again, you know, being super
helpful and, and helping them select

maybe you have a partner, you know,
ecosystem that you could refer them to.

And again, be really honest with
your partner and go, Hey, we're

gonna recommend this client to you.

Here are the challenges that
we've had and we've just kind of

reached our threshold for this.

Um, unless you really don't like the
partner, in which case you say, Hey,

these guys, these clients are amazing.

I.

I think they've outgrown us and what
they need is someone just far better,

far, far better, you know, with
service than, than we can provide.

And that's why I immediately thought of
you guys, and I just think you're the

team that can take them to the next level.

Right.

. Um, there's always nice ways
to say everything, right.

Um, but I, I do think it's super
important, and especially at this time

of year, you've gotta be looking at
those clients and thinking, Uh, is it the

right kind of client for us, genuinely?

Have they outgrown us or
or are they too small?

Do they fit inside our sweet spot of,
of clients that we can give an amazing

service to inside the things that we want
to be awesome at for the next 12 months?

Is this a good fit?

Still have that think and, and
whilst you're there, and I'm sure

we're gonna talk about this, Let's
look at the profitability of those

clients and let's look at what we're
charging and how we're gonna put our

prices up, and how are we gonna have
that conversation with them as well.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, and I pump Mike.

Pete Matheson: thing is a key part there.

I mean, you, you mentioned it a few
times and we've all mentioned it.

I think we even mentioned
it last week as well.

Um, and I probably said
the same last week.

The number of people that don't
track the profitability of their

clients really is astonishing.

Like if you're worried that you are so
busy, don't get time to do anything.

You need to know which clients of
yours are demanding so much of your

time and not paying you enough.

Because there, I guarantee it, there'll
be some clients in every MSP where

you are doing far more labor laborious
work for them than they're actually

physically paying you for reading all the
subscriptions and things they pay you for.

So figure out who those clients are.

Figure out a way to fix the problem one
way or another, whether you are handing

them off to somebody else, whether you
just have those conversations with them.

Um, and, and the, the thing is,
if you have the data, it's so much

easier to have those conversations.

You can show them and say, look, look,
here is literally what our systems say.

We are spending hours and hours
compared to the, you know, the

taps you're actually paying us.

What do you suggest we do?

Like, we can let you go or we figure
out a way to fix this problem.

Because if you're

Richard Tubb: every business owner will
understand if you speak to 'em about

profitability, because unless you're
profitable, it's not sustainable.

If you're not sustainable, and most of
us got in this industry to help people,

well, you're not gonna be around to help
somebody, you know, uh, the week after.

So if you have a one-on-one
conversation with business owners and

say, look, you are not profitable.

This is not profitable for us.

Nobody.

I mean, if, first of all, if
they turn around as a client

and go, not our problem.

Massive red flag.

Let them go because they don't
understand the way business works.

It's gonna work for everybody.

This is not a zero sum game, but
you know, every business owner I've

spoken to about, you know, this,
this is not profitable for us.

How can we work this out?

You either one of two things happens.

Either they pay more.

To compensate you for, you know, to,
to increase your profitability there.

Or more likely they will say, okay,
where are the issues coming from?

And we touched upon this
last week, didn't we, Andrew?

And we talked about training.

You know, I used to be
a big believer in this.

We would look at root cause
analysis in our clients and

find out the members of staff.

Who were logging the most tickets
and then look at the type of

tickets they were logging.

More often than not, when we had a
conversation with a business owner

about the profitability of the contract,
it's just not working out for us.

When we dug down, it would be, oh
yeah, so and so is logging too many

tickets, or, you know, so and so needs
training, or We need this product.

Uh, replacing or whatever it might be.

So for everybody watching, you
know, if you missed the last week's

show on lowering cost of support,
increasing profit, I would hugely

encourage you to go and check that.

Hey, and Scott, I wanted to say
something to you, just a a point as well.

You know, you were jokingly, I know you
were saying it jokingly about referring.

Uh, clients who are not a good fit for you
onto your worst enemies, said, Hey, just

get rid of them and go across to there.

I have spoken to so many MSPs who have
got absolutely horrible, horrible clients,

and I've said, well, just refer them away.

And they've said, I wouldn't wish them
upon my worst enemy, but I've said to

them, here's the serious point about this.

What, because they're not a good
fit for you, doesn't mean they won't

be a good fit for somebody else.

I found them, but some clients
that I worked with, my MSP worked

with and we, they were just awful.

They paid late.

They didn't listen to our advice.

They were all, you know, everybody
know, everybody listening to

this knows those type of clients.

But then when we went to them
and said, Hey, look, we've

gone in a different direction.

We don't think we're gonna
be a good fit for you.

Let us refer you off to such
and such local provider.

Almost every time.

The MSPs that I've referred them
to have come back to me like six

months a year later and said, Rick,
thanks so much for that referral.

They have turned into a
brilliant client for us.

And I'm thinking, are
these the same people?

But what it underlies is just because it's
not a good fit for you, doesn't mean it

won't be a good fit for somebody else.

So I would absolutely refer business
off with all the caveats that you

mentioned, Scott, you know, saying,
Hey, they're not a good fit for us

because of this, that, and the other.

Do you want the referral?

And what you find is it's a lot
easier going to a client and saying,

we don't think we're a good fit for
you, but we're not dropping you in it.

Here's somebody we do think is
gonna be a good fit for you.

It's a win for for you.

It's a win for the other MSP and
it's a win for the client as well.

You're not burning any bridges,
so just some thoughts on that.

Scott Riley: I think it's, it's
also a good time for the clients as

well to understand that they have a
relationship with an IT provider who's

turned around and said, Hey, this isn't
working for us, so I'm gonna find you.

I'm gonna work with you to find
a partner who is a good fit.

It's kind of a good
checkpoint for them to go.

Oh, uh, I just kind of thought
like everybody was like this

and we pay and, and we demand
and, and this is what we get.

And so it's kind of like a, a refresh
point for them to go, oh, maybe we.

We do need to kind of reset
our expectations a bit.

And so at that stage, they're kind of
open to the conversation with the new

provider and they have an opportunity,
the two of them, to negotiate what

will be a good service going forward.

They don't just immediately pick up
those same expectations and lump them

on a new provider, like if they'd
got to the point of being frustrated

themselves and just found someone else.

Richard Tubb: Right

Scott Riley: You see this?

Like when that client gets fed up
with it, provider A, and they go

and source it, provider B, they tell
the new guys all the nice stuff.

Oh, we're easy to deal with.

Oh, we're super simple.

I don't understand why they
never answer the phone.

Like these are all the
problems that we have, and so.

You know, new provider just
gets one side of the story.

Whereas when you work in this method and
you, you move them across, you go, Hey,

I'm, I'm gonna speak to the provider.

I'll let them know all the tickets
we've had, what challenges we've

had in keeping up with you.

And then like, everyone's clued in
and so the new provider is taking

it on kind of with open eyes.

Uh, and everybody's got that
opportunity to just kind of hit

refresh, I think, in that relationship.

So it's, it's a really
good method to do things.

Andrew Moon: way.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, if, if you're
having those regular technology, business

reviews, whatever you call them, uh, that
those conversations can, can come up.

And I, I'm actually am surprised by that,
that when we're talking about data, uh,

when I bring on new coaching clients,
that's the first thing we go through.

List all of your clients out on a spread.

What services are you selling them?

What you're, what are
you not selling them?

It's what we talked about last week.

How, how do we, a week before that
when we talked about lifetime value.

So that's the first thing we look at.

Second thing I look at is,
okay, we take those same

clients and are they profitable?

What is your all in seat
price from Gary Peka?

Um, and how many tickets do they create?

How many tickets do they create?

Each month is the one
that I am flabbergasted.

, A lot of it companies don't know,
and you can easily pull that data

out of your psa, but the problem
is they're not tracking it.

Like they're not tracking the
tickets enough to be able to say,

these amount of tickets are getting
generated against this contract.

So that would definitely be on my to-do
list right now to put in some point over

the next three weeks to figure that out.

What is your all-in seat
price for your customers?

What are you not selling?

And how many tickets do they create, do
you know, so that you can evaluate that?

Um, anyway, I did post the link to
Mike Mac's, uh, uh, website and he

does have free resources on his website
with each of his books, by the way.

Um, one of them is that pumpkin plan.

It's a spreadsheet where you,
and, and you can go in and

figure out, and it's the same.

It's a very basic spreadsheet.

Put in all your customers and figure
and grade them using that spreadsheet

based upon criteria that you.

Then, you know, okay, these customers
are in against, not always based on

profitability, uh, but these are the
customers that we wanna move away from.

So let's talk.

So we've, I think those are takeaways
that if you're just joining us, uh, that

we definitely, um, want to implement the
next one that, that we kind of see, and

we've all bounced around this, uh, in
different forums on the tribe and read it.

And we're starting to see.

, uh, the rumors of regulation,
uh, coming in the new year.

Um, where do you guys see that?

What can MSPs do to prepare for the
eventuality, which is regulation?

In our industry?

Pete Matheson: Uh, I think it
was, um, I can't remember who

shared it, but there's been.

Initial rumors, and it's
always initial rumors.

There's no hardcore concrete
evidence based information coming

outta the government here in the uk.

But, um, the information I saw was
more about that the first inklings

of, uh, regulation would be that MSPs
would have to report any breaches.

I think that was the.

That was the kinda the writing or
word they used, which is kind of

what we should be doing anyway as
MSPs and what you should be doing.

You know, if, if someone's been
breached, you should be going to

places like the authorities, the
police, to report the breach and just

let 'em know so they can go and, you
know, chase it down and investigate

and do whatever they need to do.

Things like the ico, if there's
any data leaks involved, obviously

speaking to the ICO about that as well.

But, um, I think it just, again,
kind of reiterates the fact that

we all know regulation is coming.

We don't know what shape or form that
involves yet, but we can probably make

some good assumptions on, you know
what, what the stats of that might be.

Things like cyber essentials.

You know, the, I'd certainly think at
least Cyber Centrals basic would be

a minimum require requirement for all
MSPs and all kind of IT consultants.

But then I wonder if that is just too
basic, cuz we all know people could

just tick the boxes and say, yeah, we,
we we're certified and qualified and we

know what we're doing and they're not.

Um, so I wonder, and I'd like to really
see that Cyber Centrals Plus is the

minimum requirement for every msp.

Um, cause I, I, I think that's
something that's, I guess, attainable.

Lots of MSPs apart from maybe the, you
know, the startups cuz Cyber Centrals

is, I dunno, Scott if you know, is it
like a couple of grand or so, isn't it

two and a half grand for Cyber Centrals
plus something along those lines?

Scott Riley: Not even, it's like,
uh, in, in UK pounds, like 1,300.

Uh, and it's, and it's a
self-assessment questionnaire.

Um, it can be guided by an agency.

There's a couple of good agencies here
in the uk, but we, we flew through

that in, in our renewal this year.

Um, and we renewed our
Cyber Centrals Plus as well.

And, and bear in mind we took on.

Cyber Centrals and plus when we
were a three person operation.

Um, so it's very doable.

It's, it's also super doable at
that size because you, you don't

have a lot toward it, right?

And then you kind of grow
up in those behaviors.

So it's, it's kind of easier the
smaller you are, um, but it's

certainly not at a price point where
it's, um, you know, not affordable.

It's absolutely affordable, even at
Cyber Centrals Plus, I want to say

it's like 2000 pounds in, in uk,
so maybe two and a half thousand

dollars, something like that.

Um, but it's, it's very affordable.

Um, and I think if, if regulation does
come, I mean, cyber Centrals plus would

be my minimum that the self assessing.

Questionnaire, you can fly
through it with stock answers

that you can get off the internet.

Um, and, and I don't
mean to be disparaging.

I think it is, it's a very important
process, but I, I, I think my

point is I would just encourage
you if you're an MSP to aim higher.

Uh, and so you should be looking at Cyber
Centrals Plus, um, I think in Andrew, I

think you're dropping the link in the US
you have a slightly different framework.

If I'm right.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, it's,
it's all over the place.

This is one that, uh, Richard just
gave me this resource, Carl Polluck.

A, the godfather of the MSP industry,
if you will, um, has a, uh, the National

Society of IT Service Providers.

Which, which again, I think that that is
what is needed, the ability for the IT

community to come together itself, uh, and
to come up with the standards before an

Scott Riley: Before
someone else does, right?

Richard Tubb: Exactly, and that's
why this is why Karl put together

this organization, um, for society
of IT service providers, US based

organization, or at least North American,
I think, um, because they could see

the, the, the writing on the wall
here, there is gonna be regulation,

there is gonna be, you know, a a, a
minimum standard for IT providers.

And that's broadly speaking a
good thing cuz how many people

listening to this show, watching
this show are sick to death of going.

Client sites that they've inherited from,
you know, uh, Joe's Fish and Tackle and

laptop repair store down the road who's
been doing it support for a company

and they've made a complete mess of it,
or they're doing illegal stuff or, or

whatever it might be that's in there.

So many cowboys in this
industry, we do need regulation.

Uh, but what Carl's doing with
the national, uh, society of IT

service providers in the US is
sort of, uh, getting a, getting

a leap on that whole thing.

My view around accreditation,
certifications, regulation, that type

of thing is the real value in going
through it voluntarily at this stage.

And I, I would encourage everybody
listening, everybody watching to

start looking at the standards that
these that guys are talking about now.

Um, we went through one, uh, back in the
day, uh, that was called a Credit uk.

Uh, and it was bought out by Comper and
I, I believe the standards disappeared.

Sadly, uh, to this day.

We went through that, not because we
wanted a shiny little badge to put on

our website because nobody's gonna knock
your door down saying, Hey, your ISO

27,001 qualified, or, you've got this
badge, we've gotta do business with you.

That's not the way it works.

The real value in going through these
accreditations, these regulations,

Is going through them because it
makes you a more mature business.

It is a framework to look at your business
and say, here's what you're doing well,

here's where you need to improve things,
and rather than trying to work that out

yourself, these frameworks that are put
together I think are really good for the,

you know, the process of going through
them and making your business better.

So don't go through these things.

Just because you want a badge to put
on your website, but do go through them

to improve your business and do start
thinking about going through them in

2023 because as everybody here today has
said in 20 24, 20 25, whenever it might

be, something like these standards is
gonna become mandatory and it's gonna

be something that you have to have in
place, uh uh, to do this type of business.

It may take longer than that, but
it's gonna come sooner or later.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, for sure.

Tony Edwards said, yeah, cyber
Essentials has been on his project

timeline for the past few months, but
that will be a job for the next year.

For now, I'm also looking at
stressing to a few of my clients.

To get up to that as well.

So, yeah.

Scott Riley: it's, it's super important
and I think like the, the comfort that

you get from knowing that your clients
are set up properly and have passed

those essential, you know, even cyber
essentials is such a good start because

what do we always tell customers?

The two biggest ways you're gonna get
hacked is someone's gonna click on

a link they shouldn't have clicked
and someone didn't have MFA set up.

Those are the two things.

TA 99.9 set of hacks
according to Microsoft.

Why not?

Andrew Moon: Yeah,

Scott Riley: If you get someone
through cyber essentials, at least

those two things are knocked out
the way if you get them through.

Plus, then you also know it's
all the great stuff, like the

firewalls are in good shape.

They're not running as local
admin on their machine.

You've got some kind of software
management, you've got some patching

engine, you've audited every device and,
and all the software on there is up to

date at the time that the audit happened.

Okay, great.

Well, you know that at least once a year,
if that's when the audit happens, we

know this was in really good shape and
you've managed to put your stack together.

To look after those
devices and maintain them.

But right now they are good enough
security-wise to pass this audit.

Um, if we have anyone from Australia
as well, I believe they call it

Essential eight in Australia.

That's their version.

Um, but I just think this is super
important, you know, for, for you

as the MSP to get through these, um,
You know, CE Plus, as I say, to get

your customers up to CE at a minimum.

Uh, well, the CIS Controls
is a, is a great one.

I think Westway John from
WESTWAY is just posting the CIS

Controls is a fantastic resource.

Again, um, we've actually mapped
out the CIS controls to M 365.

Business premium controls and just
gone, right here's, here's how we

implement all those controls where
we can from a technology perspective.

And that just means we have a blueprint
to go in and go, Hey, you know, we can

get you through Cyber Centrals or CIS
accreditation with this blueprint and a,

and a business premium set of licenses.

Um, which is is really helpful.

But it just, it gives you the
confidence that you're not gonna

have a customer phone you up and
say, oh, Dave's had his email hacked.

Uh oh no, we're sending out tons of
emails and we don't know what's happening.

And, and customers are complaining.

We keep sending spam emails with dodgy
links to them, and you're like, cool.

Someone's had their, their email hacked,
they've had a business email compromise,

and now we've gotta tidy it up.

Think about that for a second.

You are the IT provider who, who's been
called into tidy up this mess that you

could have prevented in the first place.

And we know that a lot of times
you'll chat to the clients and

they'll keep putting it off.

They keep putting it off cuz they
don't really understand the risk and

you can talk to 'em to their blue in
the face about what the risks are and

how it's not good for their business
and they're putting their people at.

Ultimately, you just have to push it
on them and say, no, this is happening.

This is happening within the next
three, six months, whatever it is, you

put the deadline, it has to happen.

Otherwise we can't be your IT provider.

That's how strongly you have to
word these things because when the

regulation starts to come in, the
responsibility is gonna land on you.

You're gonna be the guys left from the,
from the regulation on the potential,

you know, legal fees and ramifications.

Did you explain this well enough?

Were you abundantly clear that if they
didn't do this, they were at risk?

Did they understand when
you explained it to them?

Because if you, if you can't prove this
in black and white, that you told them

and that you told them again, and you
told them what you told them, and they

still said no, and then they got breached.

This could come knocking on your door.

that's why I'm really bullish around.

You have to secure them.

You have to push the customers
into a secure state cuz they

will just keep putting it off.

Sorry, I'm ranting, but it's
just, it's super important that I

don't wanna see MSPs, especially
with this regulation coming in.

I don't wanna see MSPs left holding
the bag because our customers kept

putting us off when it came to
rolling out the security updates

or the patches or whatever it is.

We have to be really.

I, I, I don't wanna say
proactive, I want to be pushy.

We need to push these security things on
them and force them to comply, and that's

why it's good for us to have the standards
in our own business cuz then we know

what it really means to deploy in theirs.

I will shut up for a second, but
I just think it's so important.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, for sure.

And I think, you know, touching on that,
like I would love to see that education

component be baked into the minimum
viable standards in an MSP plan, not.

You gotta be on our top
tier to get education.

Um, I, I think, you know, MFA to like,
there's things at a, at the entry level,

minimum viable service that you provide
your customers that should be there.

Not extras, you know, mfa, the education.

Anything else that you can think of
that you think is, you know, the minimum

standard of care, uh, for an msp.

Those are the ones that
come to the top of my mind.

You know, MFA and educat.

Scott Riley: And, and if they don't
want those minimum and they don't

wanna pay for those minimum, you
really don't want them as a client.

because they're not prepared to
take these things seriously, and you

are gonna be left holding the can.

When Dave's email account gets hacked,
they're gonna come to you and you're

gonna have to, even if they don't
come to you for recompense, because

you'll have the contracts in place
that say, Hey, no consequential

loss and all that kind of stuff.

You're still the guys that are gonna
get called up on a Saturday afternoon

and have to figure out what happened
and tidy it up and sorted out, and then

spend days and weeks cleaning up to
make sure the, the, the bad guys are

definitely out, over proving it back to
your client, putting more controls and

more management and more reports in place
to evidence back to them, Hey, this.

This hasn't happened since
it won't happen again.

We're taking really super good care
of you and the, and the second that

something else that looks vaguely related
to a cybersecurity incident comes back,

they're gonna come right back to you.

Hey, is this related to that
time when you let us get hacked?

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

I didn't let you get hacked.

You wouldn't let me put the secure.

Yeah, well, you re you remember?

Yeah, I do remember.

I remember you wouldn't let me do my job.

All of that stuff's gonna happen, so,
Exactly as you said, Andrew, like your

if, if you're doing good, better, best,
or bronze, silver, gold, whatever it

is, your minimum plan has to be good
enough for you as the MSP on security.

That's your minimum.

Don't compromise on that.

And then you have your
better services on top,

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

And if that changes your
pricing model, so be it.

Scott Riley: so be it.

Yeah.

Andrew Moon: that, that
it is what it is now.

So

Pete Matheson: I've seen to,
um, to Scott's comment about

kinda being a bit more pushy.

I've seen people be a lot more successful
lately of just going out there and saying,

look, this is happening from next month.

Your price is going up.

Like you'll get billed.

It, it needs to happen.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else,
I dunno if anyone else is watching or,

um, but you know, whoever's watching
this after, leave it in the comments.

But if anyone else has tried that yet,

Andrew Moon: that

Pete Matheson: Everyone that I've seen
that have tried that, they've just had

not a single comeback from a client.

It's just like, yep, okay, we
understand prices go up, like done.

There's no kind of issues
with just doing the work.

Um, certainly obviously with maybe
something like Cyber Centrals plus,

cuz that's quite a big financial
commitment, but certainly in terms of

like small price increases about, you
know, the hourly rates you charge or

what have you don't have to necessarily.

Ask for permission, but at least
tell them with enough notice

to prepare for the changes.

I think that's the key is like, make
the changes, just implement them.

As long as you give them
notice, that's a critical thing.

But you don't have to sit there
and saying, look, well, we're

thinking of putting our prices up
to this next month, if that's okay.

If you approve our um, thing, then we'll,
we'll then send you an updated like that.

Just, it's gonna, no one's
gonna reply to that email.

Are you, if your, um, if your
electricity or gas provider said

we'd, we'd like to put the prices
up to this next month, is that okay?

You just go, no, or just ignore the
email and pretend you've not seen it.

So just do the opposite and just go,
okay, prices go up from January the

first, you know, or February the first.

If you haven't got enough time now done,
that's all you need to worry about.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, for sure.

Scott Riley: I mean, Netflix have done it.

YouTube's done it.

Disney plus have done it.

We've all had the email that goes,
Hey, you know, your price is gonna go

up by, you know, three or $4 starting
next month, but here's a reminder of

all the great services that you have
from us today, and here's what we're

planning for the next six and 12 months.

You don't do anything.

You just kinda go, oh, price is going up.

I don't care what the email
says, price is going up.

And then when the direct debit, or you
know, the, the card payment is slightly

higher next month, you're like, oh yeah,
they told me the price was going up.

Yeah, that's it.

Richard Tubb: a totally accepted part
business, totally accepted part of

business, and I would go as far as to
say I, I've, you know, this is a soapbox

topic for me, so you're not the only
one ranting on this episode, Scott.

Um, if you don't put your prices up
regularly with your clients, you.

It makes you look unprofessional
because every professional business

puts their prices up regularly.

At least annually and
sometimes more often than that.

So if you don't put your prices
up, and you know, we've all been in

that situation where, uh, you know,
you've not put your prices up for a

year, then another year before you
know it, three years has gone by.

Then you've gotta go to your
clients and go, yeah, we've gotta

give you a whacking great price
increase to bring you back online.

It's like, ugh, it's icky, it's horrible.

So get used to doing it
regularly because as Scott just.

We are so used to other professional
organizations, ISPs, telecoms, you

know, utility providers, whoever it
might be, entertainment providers.

They put the prices up regularly and we
may not, may not like it, but we accept

it cuz it's a part of doing business.

So please do put your prices up
as part you're planning for 2023.

Andrew Moon: For sure.

Lots of great takeaways on this one.

Um, and I'm, I'm glad we started off at
the personal level, so thank you Pete.

Uh, I like that, that, uh, booking the
time on a quarterly basis, um, upfront,

that way you've got time blocked for, for
next year for you so you can keep growing.

So, Well, that is gonna wrap this show.

I know.

Uh, Richard's got a jet, so we
appreciate all of you hanging out.

Uh, Tony, John, and those of others
who hung out with us live today.

And if you're listening to this on
the flip side on the podcast, we

appreciate all of the love and support
you guys give us week in and week out.

So that will wrap this show.

We will figure out a topic for next
week and, uh, we'll see everybody

next week on the Not an MSP show.

See.

Scott Riley: See you guys.