The NOT an MSP Show

Andrew Moon: Welcome to another
episode of the Not An MSP Show.

I'm checking LinkedIn comments.

So LinkedIn is broken again today.

So LinkedIn's been really pissing
me off lately with comments.

It's either hit or miss, so, but
yes, we Mark Barton over on LinkedIn.

Clinton cast Castella over on LinkedIn.

I wanted to say hi and let you
guys know we, we know you're here.

I just can't put their comments up on
the screen cuz of, of the LinkedIn.

The LinkedIn Gods don't want us lately.

they gotta get their stuff together, man.

They, they, they spend December
screwing around with everything

because people are offline.

And then we, we spend January
trying to fix everything.

So that's typical with LinkedIn.

So it's, cuz it's Microsoft.

I blame, it's cuz it's Microsoft.

Scott Riley: Oh, it is now.

Yeah, that's true.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

So how are you guys doing today?

Uh, we're getting Ro Sam's
Richard, uh, he's dealing with the

electrician, so his internet gods
are not working for him either.

So how are you guys doing today?

Pete Matheson: I'm good.

Yeah.

Having, having the existential crisis,
which I mentioned before the call,

but, uh, other than that, fantastic

Andrew Moon: Awesome.

Awesome.

Scott, how's your day?

How's your week going so far?

Scott Riley: Oh, so good.

It's, um, it's really cold here in the
uk, but it's blue and sunny skies and so

for myself, installed solar panels and
inverters and batteries and everything.

I just finished in December.

Oh, I'm having a great week.

It's really good,

Andrew Moon: Oh, . Nice

Scott Riley: it's one of those
nerd things where I constantly

keep looking at the stats and
how many kilowatts in my general.

Ooh, it's exciting.

Pete Matheson: Oh, have you
got, um, home assistant?

Yeah.

Scott Riley: No, that's,
that's my next little project.

I've got a little raspberry pie set to
one side that that'll be the next one.

Andrew Moon: Nice.

Pete Matheson: um, I'm
gonna, I'm gonna use this.

I'm gonna abuse this opportunity.

Anyone watching this, if you can get
hold of a raspy pie for um com compute

module, please let me know cuz they're
impossible to get a hold of right now.

And, um, yeah, I'm trying
to move my home, home.

Um, home assistant install to a, a pie.

So yeah, , there you go.

But yeah, once you get home assistant,
you can, um, If you can see much of that,

but you can literally like hook it up
into home assistance and get all your

solar stats, all the, the devices that

Scott Riley: Oh yeah.

Pete Matheson: usage, the expense,
like a so cool, so much fun.

Andrew Moon: Nice.

Very nice.

Anyway.

Always fun.

It, it wouldn't work too well here
in Ohio, at least this winter.

It's like yesterday with sunshine and
then we'll go like 10 days with no sun.

It's just, it's been one
of those winters, so.

It's very depressing.

Very depressing.

Scott Riley: Yeah,

Pete Matheson: The UK.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

It's, it's just weird.

It's like sun comes out, it's it,
and I'm like, oh, what is that?

You know, orange orb in the
sky that, so anyway, it's

been fun stuff, uh, in the Ms.

P world, uh, the last couple weeks.

So that's kind of what we're gonna talk
about today, is, uh, having difficult

conversations with our clients.

I know we gotta started a little
bit late, so this will be an,

an abbreviated version of this.

Uh, but I, I think we can do it.

I think we can do it.

So I, I kind of want to talk about a
couple things that if, if I'm an Ms.

P the last couple weeks, um,
Scott, you, you, you, Pete, and

I were talking before you jumped
on the call about the last past.

And then the other, the other one I
didn't cover, Pete, was kind of what

came across Friday that I saw lighting
up forums about Windows Defender and

Scott Riley: Oh

Andrew Moon: pushed out an update.

And so anyway, I, I think, we'll, we'll,
I think it's good point to start there

if I'm an MSP because I think those are
difficult conversations to have with our

clients when stuff like that happens.

So I think, Scott, did you run into any
of that being still in the MSP game?

Did you see any anomalies on,

Scott Riley: Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew Moon: here in
the States anyway, so.

Scott Riley: Yeah, it feels
like Friday, uh, for us as well.

I know, um, there were some patches pushed
out really quickly by Microsoft, which

is the one nice thing, uh, about this.

Um, but no, you know, we, we had
exa, I mean, it happened to us, you

know, we run defender for endpoint.

We.

Drink our own champagne, eat our own
dog food, choose your, choose your,

uh, Um, but no, it, it happened to us.

Uh, it, it, it actually
happened to me on Thursday.

I noticed it was happening.

I, and I thought it was just me.

I thought it was my machine.

And then as you know, Friday, it
explodes and it hits everybody.

Um, and yeah, some, some awkward
conversations, you know, where

we've, we've gone and told these
clients, Hey, you know, we're

putting this tooling in place.

It's the best there is and
it's fantastic for you.

Um, and it's, it's gonna make sure
that you have less disruption and less

downtime and it's gonna keep you safe.

And everyone's gonna be working
pro produc, you know, productively.

And, and then Friday comes and
like, oh, my Outlook doesn't

work and I can't find teams.

It's all the, the, the,
the tickets are hilarious.

Like someone's deleted everything
off my computer, all my work's gone.

And, you know, I know, and I'm not trying
to make light of the users, but you know,

the kind of tickets that we were getting
through, it's just like the world's ended.

Um, and so it, you know, it was really
important to kind of get in front of that,

um, and just try and get to explain to
people, okay, this is what's happening.

It's, it's, it's not all gone.

Your work's all safe.

Everything's good.

Um, Yes, it's a, it's a bug essentially.

Um, and it's gonna get fixed and then
this is how it's gonna get fixed.

But I, I, well, to be fair, at the time
we didn't know how it was gonna get fixed.

We just had to get on the front foot and
have the conversations and try to stop

the bombardment of tickets coming in,
um, to get notifications out to people.

Say, Hey, we know.

Okay.

What, what, what you're about to tell us.

We know.

Um, I suspect some of the larger MSPs
might have even set up their, um,

auto response . Press one for tech
support if you are calling, because

your links have all disappeared.

Your work is all gone, or your
computer has lost everything.

Um, just know it's a bug.

Um, but yeah, so

Pete Matheson: But it's fine
cause it's happened to us too.

So we can't do anything

Scott Riley: That's right.

Yeah.

Just know you are not alone.

Um, and that should make you feel better.

So, no, it's, it's been an awkward week.

Not too bad.

I think these are the situations
where, We can, we, we can go look.

This, you know, it's, it's,
it's very out of the ordinary.

It absolutely shouldn't happen.

It's clearly a bug.

It's not, you know, intended behavior.

No one's made a deliberate mistake.

Well, so far as we know, um, but
you know, not, no one from our

M S P team has done anything.

You know, erroneous or whatever
here that's causing you a problem.

This is an issue that's affecting hundreds
of thousands of users, you know, in the

country, if not millions around the world.

Um, we're here to help and, and this is,
you know, what we're gonna do to fix it.

And I think those situations are quite
nice where you can clearly say, Yes,

there's a problem that's affecting
many, many, many people, but we've

got some solutions for you, and you
can kind of get ahead of it that way.

Um, and not just sitting back and
waiting for all the calls to come

in and go, oh yeah, it's more calls.

But that's stupid.

Microsoft issue.

Getting ahead of, it's been really
important and I think we're mostly through

it now, although I, I still type outlook
on my computer and nothing happens.

It takes me to security settings.

Andrew Moon: so,

Pete Matheson: I, I think like
those moments, Sorry, Andrew.

I was gonna say you, I, I, I think those
moments are like, that's the chance where

like MSPs have got a chance to show what
they're made of and like show how good

they are because yeah, you're quite right
saying like, rather than being the, the

type that does sit back and wait for
the phone to ring and ask another one.

Let's explain to them like getting on
the front foot and proactively going

out to all your clients, even once you
haven't heard from, you know, sending mail

shots out to explain what's happening.

Explain that it's a third
party issue, explain where you

are in terms of the process.

Just basically giving them a, a rundown.

What you know and sharing it with them
so that they're not kind of coming in

the morning going, ah, it's all gone.

Let's pick up the phone and be
the caller number 50 or something.

So yeah, I think it really, really
does show the, um, You know, the actual

kind of proactive response for an MFP
to go in and, um, yeah, just ha well,

I guess having a good CRM system so
you can just go and do that mail shot

out to all your clients straight away.

Even not just your clients,
but prospects as well.

Cause again, that's some really good
opportunity to be like, oh, hey,

let's email a prospects and tell 'em
what's going on because chances are

your message, their IT company, oh
hey, this, this company's like sent

me a message before my own IT company.

That's the kind of stuff where
you really get a chance to, to.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, they, it.

Sam made the same thing as if
you send out an email and they

can't get the outlook, it kind of.

Pete Matheson: But yeah, but then

Scott Riley: a really good.

Andrew Moon: case scenarios, man.

Pete Matheson: and Yeah.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, it is.

Now, is there any, I, I'm curious.

No, like I said, I've been out of
the, the tools space of the MSP space.

Is there a tool out there that'll
allow you to like mass broadcast,

like a text message to clients?

I'm just curious more than anything.

Scott Riley: I mean there

Pete Matheson: they're.

With CRMs, you can get some text message
integrations onto many of the CRM systems.

They're also standalone text message
systems where you can just load up, uh,

like emergency contacts for each client.

Just do a mail shot, you know,
a text shot, I dunno what

you call it, a broadcast.

Andrew Moon: so

Scott Riley: we, we used to have it
in our larger M S P, we would have

it for sort of network incidents
or outages or things like that.

We had, you know, hundreds of thousands
of, of lease lines and things and, and

there was always something happening or
some kind of, you know, platform issue.

Um, cuz it wasn't a very
good service anyway.

Um, but, you know, there was, there
was a way to let people know about plan

maintenance and emergency issues and
incidents, um, through the text message.

Andrew Moon: Okay,

Scott Riley: We actually have a
LinkedIn message that did work.

We didn't get a name, but yeah, there.

Andrew Moon: go see who that is.

Uh, so finally, LinkedIn decided
to start working, you know,

20 minutes into the broadcast.

So, uh oh, I know it's,
it's not on my account.

It must be coming from, it's
probably coming from Richard's, cuz

I think he tied his, his LinkedIn.

That's probably why I can't see it.

But it's weird that his
LinkedIn is working.

If you're on LinkedIn, Clinton
or Mark, send me a text message

or send a message through.

I'm gonna see if the linked.

Messages are working.

So I'm not sure who this user
is, but uh, the RMM has text

messages and LinkedIn user.

If you could let us
know which one that is.

I'm, like I said, I'm just
curious more than anything.

Just, you know, just again, putting those
protocols in place when stuff like this ha

does happen so that you know what to do.

Like, you know, if you get hit by a
bus, do your staff know what to do?

Uh, but yeah, if it's baked
into, uh, the rmm, that's good.

Sam says CX platforms can do
a popup on machines like a

toast notification, so okay.

Pete Matheson: I would say, and also
when you're sending the communication.

Have a, um, very clear path for
what the customer should do as well.

Um, so, and, and, you
know, do both in one.

So send them out to your existing clients
and say, Hey, as an existing client or

as an MSP client, or, you know, monthly
managed services, whatever kind of

you calling it, then this will happen.

Don't worry, we're taking care of it.

We're pushing out policy updates
or, you know, whatever it is.

If you're not a contracted,
Then this will happen.

Like you need to phone us if you
want us to do it, or we'll be in

contact or, you know, you need to
authorize the, the approve, the

charges, whatever it's gonna be.

Just give 'em the clear, um, instructions
of what they need to do or not need to

do because you're taking care of it.

Andrew Moon: Perfect.

Yeah.

Our LinkedIn user says that synchro, Ms.

P uh, has the ability to send out RMM
or, uh, send out text messages via r m.

. Yeah, that's, that's kind of what I
would do back in the day is I would

have to do it individually cuz there
weren't many, like, mass texting

tools and CRMs really didn't have it.

Again, this is 10 years ago.

Uh, but that's what I would do.

Like all of the heavy
hitters at all my accounts.

I would send 'em all a personal
text message and just say, Hey,

we're, we've got this covered.

We're working on it.

Um, if you could just let
that trickle down to, And let

them know we're working on it.

Obviously that slows down phone calls,
tickets, all that kind of stuff.

So, but that's great that you were able
to kind of make those personal phone

calls to Scott who, you know, a again,
you know, make contact with your clients

and that's, I totally agree with you Pete.

That is a chance for us to shine as MSPs.

Um, you know, cuz it's not gonna be

Scott Riley: great opportunity to,
to show what we, what we do, you

know, and, and how we actually help.

Because I think sometimes we, we fall
into that trap of everything's working

and everything's great and there's no
issues . So maybe just trying to find

a, uh, silver lining to the cloud.

Andrew Moon: Well, and it's, you know,
again, it's a perfect time to debrief

and I think, you know, while you're in
the heat of battle, it's one thing, but

I think it's another chance for after
everything gets fixed, for you to have

a conversation with clients, you know,
whether that be on a live stream or a

webinar, and just say, Hey, , this is
what we learned from that process when

something breaks from one of our vendors.

Um, because I think that's kind of what
we're seeing more and more, uh, is,

you know, on, on the vendor side, which
we can't really do anything as an msp.

We just sit and wait.

Um, but yeah, I think again,
that's a chance to have business

communication and reinforce the fact
this is what you're paying us for.

These worst case scenarios
are what you're paying us.

Um, and yeah, just reassure them.

It could have been much worse if
we weren't in the picture , so,

Scott Riley: I think it's, it's a good
learning exercise as well, because.

It'll help inform you in the sales
process, I think, because a lot of

the times, you know, when I think
about having awkward conversations

with clients, it's because of the
expectations that were set previously.

And so if you've set some, some
real expectations that you can't

meet or you've, you've set some
expectations around this, you know,

antivirus software, it's bulletproof.

It's absolutely the best thing.

We use it all the time.

We've never had any
issues, blah, blah, blah.

We use this R M M tool,
we know it's secure.

This is how we do it.

You know, we've managed thousands of
endpoints and then it, it has a breach.

Okay.

And you've, you've set this expectation
that things like this could never happen.

This couldn't happen.

They have, you know, thousands and
thousands of people looking after this

stuff and, you know, they invest so much
insecurity and it couldn't ever happen.

And then you sat there in the
meetings cuz it will be meetings

with each of your clients.

. Yeah.

That thing I said
wouldn't happen happened.

Um, but yeah, and so I think it, it
just helps you like inform your, your

next set of conversations because you're
gonna be more cautious now that you've

seen these things or you should be, um,
because setting high expectations is

where you then end up getting pulled
up by the MD of the business going,

you told us this could never happen.

You sat here and you told us it
could never happen, and now you're

having a real awkward convers.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

So you've set the table quite well
for another issue the MSPs have

had to deal with is last pass.

Uh, Pete Pete's got some, some
experience with, you know, well, well

oiled machine on the password managers.

Um, Talk to us a little bit
about kind of, you know, how you

see, I think you did a video.

I missed it.

I didn't get to watch it.

You talked about the last pass breach you.

Um, but just any of the MSPs who may
have missed it, what would your advice

and guidance be in that scenario?

Uh, Pete.

Pete Matheson: Yeah, so I guess,
um, I mean most people are probably

aware of what's happened, but
just to catch us up to speed.

So last pass had their, um, backup
databases breached, I think September

last year, and it only really
came out in December last year.

Literally just before,
maybe just after Christmas.

So they've basically taken a copy
of all the, the backup vaults and

they have um, they have obviously
the account information in terms of

like the main username to get into
the accounts, cuz that's the kind

of unencrypted data that was taken.

They don't have any of the.

Of course the secret keys to get in.

But, um, some of us have, uh,
recently discovered that actually

LastPass wasn't really encrypting
as much as they said they were.

So some of the additional fields in
LastPass weren't actually encrypted.

Uh, one of them the key
ones being the u URL field.

So you even if you sit there and
argue, well, hey, they haven't got my

master password, it was a secure master
password, so we are okay, well they know

your email address from your account.

They now know all the websites
that you did store passwords.

So now things like phishing, uh,
attacks can be much more targeted

as well as obviously increasing
in, in, in numbers as well.

So, um, and that's one of them.

And then also there's a few
other things that came up.

But basically, uh, quite a few years ago,
I think it's like five or seven years ago

or so, they increased the, um, the key
iterations in terms of like the encryption

that was being used behind the scenes.

And it went without getting
technical from like 5,000 through

to like a hundred thousand.

And some people have found that
their account was still set

to 5,000 and wasn't updated.

So, um, that becomes obviously less
secure and easier to, to get into.

So Essent.

That happens.

Hackers have got the data and assuming
if you a had a poor password, then you're

gonna be uh, uh, very risk because you're
gonna have all your stuff stolen and

credit card information's, um, taken from
there, everything that you had in there.

Um, and even if you did have a good,
secure password, my opinion is, yeah,

you know, technology improves the
phish attempts is a, is a risk as well.

I would just be going out there
and basically changing all of

your passwords that were stored
within last pass as a precaution.

It's always that as a, as a
precaution that everyone uses.

Fundamentally, I just wouldn't personally
ever use or recommend Last pass?

Um, I said this in my video before, but
they've, they've had a history of, well,

they had a history of breaches for a start
and they've had a history of, uh, rug

pulling, I guess is the best term for it.

So they had a free feature, you
know, a free version of last pass.

This is more the consumer side of things.

They had a free version.

, they spent a ton of money with, not
with me, with other YouTubers to promote

their product and their free product, and
to obviously increase all the signups.

And then they basically went,
oh, hey, that free product,

we're gonna really restrict that.

So you can only use it from like
one device unless you now pay

us and become a paid for client.

So they pulled the rug on all the
free users, forced everyone to either,

either, um, Force everyone to either
upgrade or go find another password

manager, and of course, the easiest
solution, pay the money and just

become a, you know, paid for a client.

So just things like that
don't sit nicely with me.

Um, and they've done a few other
things over the years where they've

kind of brought features in, removed
them again and things like custom

fill and, and those kind of things.

So I just personally don't like last pass.

I've never recommended last pass.

They also are one of the only
pass, um, manufacturers I've found

that have marketing trackers.

Embedded in their Android apps,

Andrew Moon: Oh

Pete Matheson: which I just feel has
no place in any parcel manager to

embed marketing trackers in your apps.

Um, there are a few other kind
of parcel managers that have

trackers built within them.

But those are more for crash
analysis and those kind of things.

Um, one password and keeper I
think are the only ones that have

nothing in terms of trackers on
their Android app side of things.

So yeah, general devices, um,
change all your passwords and go

find a different password manager.

Um, to be honest, you can't really go
wrong with most of the, the and named past

managers out there, apart from last Pass

Um, but um, yeah, it's, it's a pain.

It's something that again, I, I see it
in the comments cause I make videos every

year and I'm just actually today, maybe
it might even be out by now, I'm not sure.

I'm posting my like best parcel manager
of the year, um, review in comparison.

And I see it in the comments
all the time of like, oh, better

us not use a parcel manager.

Cause what if it get hacked?

Gets hacked and they steal everything.

It's like, yeah, it never happen.

And then last pass made it happen.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, so I
think there's two approaches.

I think, you know, a pocket video
school says he was a last pass customer

for 10 years till they pulled out
the rug, so he jumped to bit warden.

Um, so I think there's
two approaches here.

if I'm an Ms.

P that has been running last pass for my
customers, and then you find that out.

What conver, what do you guys recommend
for a basis of conversation for an Ms.

P if they're sitting in
those shoes right now?

Scott Riley: So, I mean,
for me, the, oh good.

You go, oh, he's got a drink now.

He's got me No.

Andrew Moon: He's got the beer going, man.

Scott Riley: Yeah, so I think, like
for me, I think in the same way

we spoke earlier about, you know,
obviously this is a vendor issue.

It's not something that you as an MSP
have done, but your, your customer's

gonna want to feel confident.

That you, you understand
the severity of the problem.

You can tell them whether they are
impacted and, and what they need to

do, but also you need to be able to
tell 'em what you are going to do next.

And I would suggest if it was me,
obviously you are gonna be looking for

a new password management tool, but
if you've already made that decision

like between December and and the 18th
of January, maybe that's a good call.

Maybe it's not a good call.

I think your client would understand
if you say to them, Hey, We,

we've taken this all in last pass.

As far as we understood.

Were a good, credible vendor
of password management tools.

You have to say that because otherwise,
why on earth did you recommend

it to them in the first place?

I know we've just said, Hey, they've,
they've been crap for 10 years,

but if you've already sold it to
them, you have to be saying, Hey,

you know, we, we genuinely believed
this was the right product for you.

What we're not gonna do, Mr.

Client or Mrs.

Client, is jump to another
product really quickly.

Without making sure that it absolutely
is one that's well regarded and is

gonna look after your data safely.

And I think that's a fair
conversation to have.

But you still need to give them an
idea of a timeframe or you're gonna

commit to giving them regular updates.

And then you can follow up, Hey, you
know, a, after our meeting that we had

last week, and please let you know that
there's actually been some progress.

This is where we are now in
discussion with, you know, this

particular vendor or whatever it is.

And, and then you can keep
them informed of that process.

And then when you come up to
the time where it's about to cut

them over, they're well informed.

They understand the change.

They know there's gonna be
disruption in their business.

As everyone gets these new password
tools rolled up, Hey, it's all for their

benefit, because you don't want to have
a repeat of what happened in December.

Ideally you want to get that done in
first quarter, but you know, some MSPs

are gonna have thousands and thousands
of endpoints to go through, and that

again, that's a fair thing to have
that conversation with your client.

They will want to feel like they're
the most important client, of course,

but they will understand that you're
a business and that you have a number

of clients to tend to, and you are
gonna make the best decision for

everybody, as well as something that
you can manage in the long term.

It's gonna be awkward.

Um, it's not your fault obviously,
but as long as you have a clear plan.

You're not sounding too reactive.

Cuz I think if, if you were to come into
my business and say, Hey, this happened,

but don't worry, we've picked something
else and we're moving everyone over.

I'd be like, dude, how much, how
much thinking time did you do?

Because I just feel like we're
just, it's, it's either all

gonna go wrong in the cut over.

We're not gonna get a great cut.

It's gonna feel rushed.

You might miss something in
the export, or you might end up

with a big load of plain text.

How are you gonna get
us from A to B safely?

And is that product any
better than this product?

like how do we know?

That's the ultimate answer
that you need to have for them.

But it's not an answer I
think you need to have today.

You, it's, it's fine to be saying,
we're doing that discovery now and

we're taking it very seriously.

Andrew Moon: I

Pete Matheson: I think the main thing
fundamentally to focus on with the

client discussions is to secure the
client, cuz that's basically what

you're there to do is secure the client.

So whatever advice,
recommendations, in terms of.

Getting, helping them or ensuring they
know they need to reset their passwords.

If they're still a last pass customer,
then um, obviously change it as much

as you can, make sure they've got
to a face set on their accounts.

So all those kind of things, just
whatever you can, again, secure the

client that's your priority as their Ms.

P.

Um, and then yeah,
exactly like Scott said.

Um, I almost think this raises a, a,
another kind of, uh, potential query or

process that you should be doing, I feel
in MSPs, and we did it as part of ours.

Uh, uh, like an annual maybe, maybe
biannual or something like some form

of review where every year you go
and look at your own tools and go,

are we using the best, uh, in the
industry for what we wanna do with,

you know, best antivirus, the best, r
m m, the best, even down to your own

internal tools, the ticketing tools.

Just find the thing
that works best for you.

And I know of course, You can't
just go and jump PSA and RM products

every year cuz it's just not,
um, not, you just can't do it.

It's too, too difficult.

But particularly with like the security
products, security's so fast changing that

it's worth staying on top of those and
going, you know, like we've seen recently

like the Sentinel ones and those kind
of next gen anti-virus engines actually

going, well let's have a look at 'em.

Let's trial them out.

Let's see how they work.

Do we now replace that with
one of our legacy antivirus,

traditional antivirus, um, vendors.

Spending the time.

Cause I think that's the main thing
is you are there to advise, recommend,

you know, you are, you are the expert.

So make sure you are aware
of the rest of the market.

It's kind of why, um, you know, the
internal, its, uh, if you go and work in

one company, you just get to know, you
know, you get very kind of, I know the

company's IT systems are nothing else.

Whereas as an M S P, we see the whole
market, we see everything else going

on, all the other products, and that's
the kind of, uh, you know, expertise and

that's the benefit we have as an M S P.

So it's just, yeah, spending some time
assessing what you are using and, uh,

yeah, so Scott's comment and yeah,
don't necessarily just go and jump and

go, oh, we were on last pass, now let's
go to, uh, keeper on one password, or

whoever the next kind of best person is.

But actually looking at the tools because.

And the likes of it glue, if
anyone's using it glue well that's

got parcel managers within that.

Like, can we use that?

Should we use that?

Again, making your own assessment,
testing out, seeing how it works

and just making sure it's, it
works for you as a, as a business.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

And I think those are great approaches.

If, if, if I'm a current LastPass
customer, making a transit, But if

I'm not a LastPass customer and my
clients haven't been on that, what

are your guys' recommendations on,
do I just say nothing or like, what

can I do as an MSP to help educate?

Because Tony made the good point.

Putting the client at ease is paramount.

Uh, unfortunately I can't
pull that comment in.

So, but, but

Scott Riley: I

Pete Matheson: out these guys.

They screwed up

Andrew Moon: yeah.

So what, what do you guys, what are
your recommendations if, if I'm, you

know, we're using a tool like Keeper
already and it's good the customers,

we know that your customers likely
have seen headlines, they've likely

have seen things on the YouTubes.

Um, what can we do as MSPs to,
to jump in there and at least

add to the conversation or.

Scott Riley: No, I think, I
think you definitely should.

It's, it's really important because don't
forget that there will be some MSPs who

use Last Pass who don't say anything to
their clients because they don't want

to scare their clients and, and think
that there might be a risk of a breach.

So if you are the MSP that doesn't use
Last Pass, it's still great to write to

your clients and say, Hey, you will have
seen this in the news, just so you know.

We don't use this tool
within our organization.

And so, as you know, as far as we're
concerned, you are not affected by this.

We're not affected by this, but we
just wanted to put your mind at ease.

You know, if you'd like to have any
further conversations about the impact

that this is having, you know, on a
wider basis, feel free to give me a call.

But just know this isn't impacting you,
how we manage your service in any way.

Um, and I think that's a really
important statement to make because,

They, they might worry about it and
they, then again, this is like we

said at the start of this call, it's
about getting on the front foot.

Do you want them calling you going,
oh my God, there's been a data breach.

You know, and you're like, what?

What do you mean there's
been a data breach?

Yeah.

Yeah.

All the passwords have been hacked.

Whose passwords?

What's going on?

Yeah.

There's last pass breach.

Dude, we don't use Last Pass.

Oh.

Or would you rather be on the
front foot of that conversation?

Just, just so you.

It's just, it's just like a psa, right?

You're just gonna send it out.

Let them know this, this is where we are.

You are cool.

We're all good.

If you want to chat, I'm right here.

And I, I just think that's
a nice way to go about it.

People would rather get that
email than, than have to,

you know, panic and call you.

Andrew Moon: Yep.

Pete Matheson: One thing I'd add onto that
actually, Scott, cause that's, that's a

very good point, but also don't forget.

If even if you, as the MSP aren't
using the last pass, then your end

users might be using last pass in
their own personal kind of world.

So it'd be a really great opportunity.

So again, like, you know, talking about
kind of doing your homework, go and

look at the market if you can make your
assessment, uh, again, don't jump to

conclusions, but at least go out there and
give them some opportunities and options.

You know, if.

If you are losing using one, um, sorry.

If you are using last pass, um, in your
own kind of personal circumstance or your

family, then have a look at considering
this, like, you can secure your

account by doing this, this, and this.

Within last pass.

If you did want to consider, then here
is a few other options that we, uh,

know of very well respected and, you
know, liked in the, uh, the IT world.

So give them some options.

At least they know what they can do.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, that's

Scott Riley: No, that's good.

And, and I'd also say like, just
keep that communication really light.

Don't, don't make any judgements in it.

Don't be calling names.

Don't go.

Those idiots over at Las Pass don't do
any of that because for that exact reason.

Like you said, Pete, they might be
using it in their personal lives.

And so when you go are those idiots at
Las Pass, that translates to, you're

an idiot as a client because you were
using this in on your home machine.

Um, Just keep it light.

This is what's happened.

This, you know, this is whether,
you know, it hasn't affected

you, it hasn't affected us.

We're all cool.

You know, maybe like you
say, you might wanna check if

you're using this personally.

It's a great time to,
to have a look at that.

But yeah, just keep it friendly.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, I've, I've got a
comment over on, on my LinkedIn feed

that says, uh, Danielle, uh, she said,
what about having the client as part

of that discovery with new tools, are
they open to being included in a beta

or a point of contact engagement?

So what, what would you guys
recommend there have, have

Pete Matheson: think.

Andrew Moon: done that?

So,

Pete Matheson: The process that we did
before was, um, test internally first.

So maybe, you know, with us it was
one of our senior techs, it was kind

of their responsibility and roles
to go and do the initial kind of

foot finding work and finding the
kind of the best few to test out.

Um, once you then settle on perhaps the
last one or two and you are thinking

you might be moving to it, then yes,
maybe roll it out to the, you know, a

select group of your clients or users
or whoever you want to, to kind of work.

To, to do that.

I think, I think it's, yeah, it's very,
very worthwhile doing, but just make

sure you're not going, okay, we're gonna
antivirus, let's test out these five.

Right.

Okay.

Which five clients we now get
employed five different antiviruses

to, and now we're gonna manage and
maintain and figure it all out.

Then we're gonna collect feedback
from all five different clients

and all five differenti just,
and that's just one product.

Then you gotta do the
other products as well.

So just as long as you can, um, do some,
some amount of testing in internally

yourself before anything else.

Then when you whistle it down to
the last one or two, then yes.

Push it out to one or two test
clients, get some feedback and get

their thoughts on the process as well.

The other thing I've, um, Uh, done
previously and, and just more thinking

out loud nowadays because with the kinda
replacing products, you know, swapping

one product for another, I know some
people are going from antivirus that

was 50 pence or cents or a dollar per
license to now maybe the, I'm not sure

what they, what they cost nowadays,
but the next gener like four or five.

Per license.

So that's a big cost increase.

So it's again, speaking to your client,
keeping that kind of communication open

and saying, well look, hey, this is the
product, but it does mean that we're

gonna have to bump prices up on, uh,
hopefully not selling just antivirus by

itself, but maybe that might bump prices
up elsewhere within your packaging.

And actually, you know, just run
that past them, get their thoughts.

, is that okay with you?

Like, what would you think if we were
to offer you this service which included

this, you know, products and bundles
of kind of services at this price?

And just, I always like kind
of getting some initial, um,

initial reactions from clients.

Um, even though I also say, don't
let that then guide your decision

because clients aren't always right.

Scott Riley: That was gonna be my point.

I, I, I, I, I love, you know,
getting, getting friendly

clients involved in that process.

If you get to like the late stage
and you're like, you know, we

like both of these, we'd love
to do some real world testing.

And I, I'd, I'd, I'd really
appreciate some feedback, feedback.

That's, that's what I'm after.

I, I don't like you.

You've gotta just be really clear with
them that you may find some negative

experiences about this, and you may
say it's not the product for you, but

it may be the product that we choose.

Because for all of our clients,
it might be the best, but it

might have the best integrations.

So again, set really good expectations.

They're not helping you with the
decision making process, but you'd

really value some feedback on the
experience, the end user experience.

I think it's just nice
to be really clear again.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

And I think, you know,
that's super important.

Uh, cuz I think, uh, let's see, your
Clinton had mentioned it, Clinton,

from Bree Logic, we talked about
that Microsoft price increase.

So you kind of touched on that,
Pete, uh, just having your pulse on.

Costs and being able to
justify any cost increases.

Um, cuz it's gonna happen,
like, we're not done yet.

Like I don't think we're done with cost
increases from the tools that we use.

Uh, but I think it's, it's super important
to have those conversations with your

clients and have those relationships.

The problem that, that I kind of see
is with, with MSPs, if you're not

doing regular technology business
reviews or just any kind of regular.

You know, client communication,
the only time they ever hear from

you is when stuff hit the fan.

I think that's a bad scenario to be in.

So for me, if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna
coach a client now this is an opportunity

for you to have a discussion, even if
it's getting on YouTube and recording

a couple minute video, like it's just,
doesn't have to be this lengthy written

email, doesn't have to be a lengthy
process, but I think just having those

regular communications with clients.

is super important.

And I think you know, this, this
kind of highlights it because if,

if you have those relationships with
your clients already, you're doing

those regular reviews, um, that makes
these conversations much easier.

That makes a price increase conversation
easier, that makes it, Hey, we need

to look at a new tool much easier.

Uh, cuz I think about, you know, the
clients that, that we would go in,

And do, and again, I didn't really
classify it as a technology business

review or quarterly business review
just because it weirds clients out that

this has to be some formal meeting.

Uh, so those of you who've listened to
the podcast before, you know, my, my

thoughts are, it, it can be as simple
as, Hey, we're gonna bring in lunch for

your staff and we just wanna sit and
hang out, see how you guys are doing.

Like, that can be your technology
business review because you find things.

You know, it's, it's funny you find
things out that, you know, annoyances

your customer may have maybe with you
or your help desk, or with technology

that you may not see in a ticket.

And I think those things
are super important.

Um, so if you're regularly doing that,
that eases uh, these conversations.

You're gonna say
something, Scott, go ahead.

Scott Riley: no, absolutely.

Um, oh, what was I gonna say?

No, so I.

. Yeah.

I totally think that the, the informal,
you know, meeting really helps them,

just like barriers are down, they're
relaxed, they're more comfortable,

more things naturally come to them.

Whereas when you go like, we're gonna
do a tbr R um, they then say, oh,

okay, what, what problems do we have?

Uh, and then they'll, they'll
struggle to think of the challenges

that they'll be asking people.

And whereas when they're just relaxed
and you're there with the whole.

, someone's someone who, you know,
maybe wouldn't raise something.

She go, do, you know, do you know
what I've always wants to ask?

Why do we have to do this?

And then this, and then this, it seems,
and you're like, why are you doing that?

You should just do this.

Or, or we can flip a switch.

Why, why would you do it that way?

And they're like, oh, we've
been doing that for years.

Great.

I'm, I'm glad we had this, this
chance to just grab a pizza

and, you know, have a chat.

Um, so I, I really like that kind of.

You know, way of just dealing
with people rather than it being

a formal, you know, meeting.

Because when you do a formal meeting,
you feel like, right, I'm gonna bring all

the service desk statistics and I'm gonna
bring all the call closure times and I'm

gonna bring a copy of the SLA for when
you moan that we didn't set up a new user.

And I'm gonna point out that it's 24 hours
and you're gonna tell me we didn't do

it in two, and I'm gonna have a anyway.

That's how that conversation's gonna go.

Um, so no, I just think informals just,
it's so much more friendly, um, each

way, but it won't work for every client.

Some clients are very
formal, we know that.

But I think for the most part,
you know, again, it's just

people spending time with people.

You're in partnership.

It's not a, you know,
buy, sell relationship.

Um, the other thing I just wanted
to mention was around those 9%

price rises for Microsoft in the uk.

Um, it's a great opportunity to, to chat
to your client now and, and say, Hey.

Look, this is coming.

How can we help you avoid this?

What, how can we mitigate this?

How can we help you reduce the impact
on you for at least the next 12 months?

Um, and obviously the, the view
there is try and get a renewal

in before the 1st of April.

Um, some people are gonna say, oh
my goodness, my renewal isn't due

until the 15th of April or May
or September, or whatever it is.

Well, I'll tell you what, um, I
chatted to a distributor today who.

. Here's the way around that.

Um, on the 31st of March, go and
take out a new subscription for one

license of every type that you need,
and they'll be locked in for that

price point for the next 12 months,
and then just have that one license.

And then when your renewal date comes
up on the existing subscription,

you turn down all those licenses,
so you turn off 300 of them at

the old price and you turn on 300.

The locked in price, which is
now locked in until next April.

, that's one way to go around it.

Not every distributor has that ability
to put multiple subscriptions of

the same license in, but it's an
opportunity for you to speak to the

client and go, Hey, how can we help,
you know, protect you against this?

And again, you are showing your value
of saying a 10% price rise is, is, you

know, it's, it's pretty significant.

Let's have a conversation and talk
about how we can help you mitigate it.

Um, and if you can't, Okay, let's
have a conversation about how

we make you make the most out of
the licenses that you are buying.

So if you're using business premium,
could we turn off some other stuff?

Could we consolidate some stuff?

Are there other things that we can,
you know, use in this portfolio that

you can stop paying for somewhere else?

Again, to help you offset this 10%.

You're being a partner, you're not
just being a licensed supplier.

And I think that's, it's a really
great chance to speak to people.

It's a horrible conversation.

But again, and we've said this
before, prices are going up every.

Energy prices are going up,
gas prices are going up.

The, you know, it's, it's everywhere.

So it's expected that this'll
happen, but again, you are

there as, as, as their partner.

How are we helping, what can we do?

How do, how do we work on this together?

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Yeah.

Danielle made a comment.

She was, uh, on LinkedIn.

She said on reviews, ask
them what they would like.

Some of my clients want quarterly
and were contracted for that.

Also ask 'em what they want to do during
these reviews and the venue type when

they happen, regardless of the recurrence.

I've had clients that like to set
and forget, but agree to simple

touchpoints during the relationship.

So again, like you guys said,
it's some clients that, uh,

a pizza party may not work.

Um, but I've made, I you be careful
the assumptions you make about what

your clients are willing to do too.

Cuz I kind of thought that with law firms,
they're not gonna like a pizza party.

Like, dude, that was, it was incredible.

Like you walk in there, one of my biggest
law firm clients, you walk in there

with pizzas man, and everybody's happy.

You sit around the conference room
table and the stuff that you were

able to find out about people, your
process about them, I mean just e

everything about it was beneficial
because everything changed from, you

know, that problem, that one problem
user that we all have inside of every.

She stopped being a problem
user because when we helped her

understand a few things, it wasn't
an adversarial relationship.

So yeah, I mean if you're gonna do that,
put that on your to-do list for this year.

That is one of 'em.

You, you gotta have these regular
engagements with your clients so that

these difficult conversations that
are, you're going to continue to have,

that's just the nature of business,
are gonna be much, much easier going.

But yeah, if, if, if they never hear
from you except, hey, prices are

going up and hey, this stuff's broke.

We need to, you need to spend more money.

Um, yeah, those are, that makes
these conversations super awkward.

Uh, Pete, I know you gotta go.

So, uh, any other, we'll kind
of wrap this up as we come

towards the top of the hour here.

Any other.

Scott Riley: was gonna say

Pete Matheson: of things to Okay,

Andrew Moon: Yes, he had a box of things
to show us, so we got like, yeah, I was

trying to give you 10 minutes to do it.

So

Pete Matheson: That's alright.

No, it probably won't even take 10

Andrew Moon: super awesome.

Pete Matheson: This.

A lesson on good marketing, but
wrongly delivered or something,

some, some nice way of saying it.

So I got, I get sent stuff a lot and I
got this in the post the other day and

I was like, oh, this is pretty awesome.

It's really well presented,
like really well put together.

This is the, the package and it says
on the box noted everything you need.

Nothing, you, don.

So I was like, ah, cool, okay.

There must be some, some
pretty cool stuff inside.

So I looked at it, I opened it up.

I'll give you one sweatband,

Scott Riley: Okay.

Pete Matheson: I'll give you one.

I dunno what it is.

Shopping bag.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, that's
what it looks like to me

Pete Matheson: I think

Scott Riley: I mean, these are
mobile phone guys, guys, right?

PO

Pete Matheson: is mobile phone company.

Coco is a Chinese mobile phone company.

Scott Riley: Yeah.

Pete Matheson: I'll
give you one can, which

Andrew Moon: is.

Pete Matheson: off and it's a thing and

Andrew Moon: Maybe you put
your headband in there.

Pete Matheson: And then the last
one that I really made they've given

me, which I haven't opened yet.

First of all, it's an xl.

I'm the medium.

They've given me a shirt that
looks like I want to go and work.

In a Poco or Poco, uh, store, and
I just opened all of these going.

That was a massive wasted opportunity.

As far as like marketing goes, they could
have made like a really nice impact.

And it's not the first time they've,
they've done this, but when you are

sending gifts to your customers,
which I think I'm, I'm a big believer

that you should be doing, try
and send stuff that they actually

want and would use or consume.

Because I don't see
myself using any of this.

I think all of this is probably
gonna end up in a landfill or

a homeless person or something.

Andrew Moon: Wasted

Pete Matheson: box was like, it's a
lovely box, like, like magnetic, like

closing and, and like nice colors.

Like I love my bright colors
and the color schemes and stuff.

It's all good, but just there needed
to be, and particularly, don't say

everything you need and nothing you
don't, on the box to really, like

maybe they're doing it on purpose, but.

I feel that there was yeah.

A, a big missed opportunity.

And I, I see this quite a lot with,
um, other businesses and, and even

just like randomly associating this
with like, you know, it tenders when

you're tendering for work and things,
people completely like misread the

specs and go in with something.

And I think there's a lot to be
said for like reading the room,

reading your customer, and,
uh, yeah, I saw the comment.

What, what should they have sent?

To to honest, just anything
that would've been useful.

Like, I mean, they're a
mobile phone companies.

They know that I review mobile phones,
so it could have been Chargers,

battery packs, cables, likes.

Someone sent me a, a very nicely braided
U usb, was it Sea to Lightning cable?

I actually used that.

Uh, it's a really simple thing,
but I genuinely use it and I'm

like, ah, that's really cool.

And I think in terms of like marketing, To
your customers and like, you know, sending

gifts to your customers there, there's
things like, I never really bothered

to send Christmas cards as a, as an as
a business because all you're gonna do

is end up being yes, another Christmas
card in the pile of Christmas cards.

So think about what else you
could do outside of those times

that can make you stand out.

Like things like.

If you have, um, you know, make a note
in your CRM system when the clients

joined you when they became a customer.

Now every year on their
anniversary, you can write them

a nice handwritten postcard, you
know, simple things, handwritten

postcard saying, thank you so much.

I've just realized it's been two years
since we met and started working together.

Have loved working with you like,
or you always give us a shout.

If you need anything, let's grab
lunch sometime, like something simple

like that can work really, really.

And then you can bolster it
with, well, let's send a, a

bucket of sweets every year.

So, you know, it's not just the
person we're speaking to, but

it's all of their staff as well.

Just things like that, that
are genuinely consumed or, you

know, more widely accepted.

You know, when you go to trade
shows, everyone gets pens and

notebooks and those kind of things.

Because they are kind of used and most
people probably take the Mick a bit too

much and just fill a bag up with, I used
to do that, fill a bag up with tons of

stuff and actually not use half of it,
but just, yeah, some form of thought.

It, it feels to me there was a
zero thought that gone into that.

It was just a very big bulk.

Let's just find the cheapest stuff we can
produce, chuck it into a box, which looks

like they spend some time on the box.

Um, but just, yeah, the
rest of it just really.

Put me off.

I think so, um, that was just my, uh,
my, my funny closing statement there

in terms of marketing, how to get
marketing right and how to get it wrong

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Danielle said

Pete Matheson: and.

Andrew Moon: mug would've
been better, so yeah.

was kind of thinking the sweat band
thing, it's the beginning of the year.

Everybody's doing their fitness goals,
you know, at least till February 1st.

So I kind of thought that's where they
were going with that, with the sweat band.

But yeah, you lost me after that.

So,

Pete Matheson: yeah, perhaps.

Maybe it's a, maybe it's a thing.

I dunno.

Andrew Moon: uh,

Scott Riley: me it's just that it's,
it's, it's nowhere near what their

product is like when you open the box.

I was like, so the thing that they're
missing is like a phone and like

Pete Matheson: Well, okay, so a week
before, oh, I can't show it to you, sorry.

A week before they did send me a phone.

Um, so I, I have been, I haven't
heard phone, but, okay, so this

isn't the first time they've done it.

They sent me a neon sign, like a,
a proper neon sign that said Poco.

And again, like it was like this big,
you can't see it cause it's out frame,

but it was like, it was quite big.

And so now I've got,
What do I do with that?

And you, you can't, sorry.

It was this big, it was this big, sir.

Um, and you gotta go and again,
throw it in the dump somehow,

or dispose of it somehow.

And they sent me a, in the height
of summer, they sent me a u SB fan.

Which probably cost 'em like a
dollar or a pound or something.

Ah, yes, Jess.

It's wrong.

Wrong products, wrong selection.

Very bad.

Um, good, good.

The thoughts there, but bad selection,

Andrew Moon: Yeah,

Scott Riley: It, it almost seems though,
like that box that they sent you was

like their new team starter pack.

So you get a T-shirt and you
get a water bottle, or you get a

sweatband and you're like, yeah,
this is what we sent to all on.

You started.

It's like, I don't

Pete Matheson: there was, there was
no nice chili bottle there, Scott.

Nothing quite like yours
at all, so, uh, yeah.

Andrew Moon: Yep.

Daniel said pre covid, she'd send
anniversary cakes to her clients with a

personal inscription on the top and icing.

I like that.

That's kind of cool.

Yeah, and then you could, you
could support local bakers.

I used to do that too.

I went to a local baker who would
put our logo on top of cupcakes.

That was our, that's when we
did onboard a new customer.

We were there for the first.

, that's what we had.

Um, so yeah, spread the love.

Awesome.

So yeah, appreciate all
the that showed up today.

Uh, Robert Gibbons Westway
It Pocket Video Schools.

Sam Jones, uh, Danielle
Una, uh, let's see here.

Who else was on here?

Mark Barton.

Uh, Tony Edwards.

Uh, Clinton Castelar.

Hopefully I didn't miss anybody.

I'm gonna have to put another
bug up at LinkedIn's butt

about getting comments working.

Man, this is frustrating.

So, um, so if, if you're watching this
and, you know, anybo, I've tried a

couple times to run my connections up
the flagpole to get some, some, uh,

some joy with the LinkedIn comments.

E cam live needs access.

They basically, they're waiting
on the instructions to be able

to use the API for comment.

. So they're approved to use comments,
but LinkedIn hasn't sent them the

instructions on how to implement it.

So another bad use case for tech support.

So anyway, so I'm gonna
keep hammering that.

So, uh, if I'm gonna put that up
on LinkedIn too, please vote on it.

If you are E cam fam, uh, we're
trying to raise our voice to

LinkedIn because I want this to work.

Scott Riley: Yeah,

Andrew Moon: Not this
half work, half not work.

Crap.

So anyway, I digress.

I can go into a full
rant on, uh, Microsoft.

Anyway, so thanks for joining us today.

Uh, if you have a topic that you would
like us to cover in a future episode,

please drop that in the comments,
reach out to us on all of the socials.

Look for Pete's, uh, new
unboxing video of Paco.

Is it Poco or Paco?

I've, I've never ever heard.

They don't sell that here in the States.

Uh, so yeah, when you posted that
the other day, uh, I think they're

your first phone video of them.

I'm like, what the heck is that?

Like, I never heard of that phone brand.

So anyway, if not, if we don't
see you online, we will see you

next week, same time, same place.

Uh, good hanging out with you guys
today, and we'll see everybody next week.